Author Topic: Percy/Patterson marriage - borders  (Read 1594 times)

Offline patrexjax

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Percy/Patterson marriage - borders
« on: Tuesday 27 February 07 23:56 GMT (UK) »
Seeking marriage of Robert Percy and Sarah Patterson; have not found them in Anglican records - suspect an "irregular marriage" about 1825 +/- 10 years - "guestimating"  because their birth registrations have not been found yet, either. For most of their married life, they lived around Spittal.  Thanks for any help! Pat
ARCHIBALD/ARCHBALD: Tweedmouth, NBL; CHARLTON: Ponteland, NBL;
ERRINGTON: West Denton, NBL; 
FAIRLESS: Longbenton, NBL;
HARDING: Hollinside, Co. Durham;
KING: Newcastle-on-Tyne & Berwickshire;
LOCKEY: Ryton, Whickham, Co. Durham & YKS; NICHOLSON: Ponteland, Newburn, NBL; PAXTON: Norham, NBL;
PAULIN: Berwickshire; REAY, Ponteland, NBL;
SCOTT: Norham, NBL; SELBY: Tweedmouth, NBL;
SLIGH: Berwickshire; SPOOR: Whickham & Ryton;
WIDDRINGTON: NBL

Offline Michael Dixon

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Re: Percy/Patterson marriage - borders
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 28 February 07 23:41 GMT (UK) »
Patrexjax,

A marriage that took place in Spittal area before 1844, would  figure in Marriage Indexes under County Durham, not in the county of Northumberland.

Within the  borders of Northumberland, there were three enclaves, Islandshire (immediately south of Berwick-upon-Tweed) Norhamshire ( close to Coldstream in Scotland) and Bedlingtonshire ( south of Morpeth) that were owned and administered by County Durham and known as "NORTH DURHAM"

These areas were absorbed into Northumberland in 1844.

an e.g. for C1841, folk born and residing in Spittal would be regarded as born/residing Co Durham.

On C1851 their birthplace/residence would be Northumberland.

Michael Dixon.
Newcastle ( itself once in Northumberland, then in the county of Tyne & Wear, now in no county)

Michael Dixon

Names.

GALLAGHER ( + variations).
Areas. Co Sligo, Co Leitrim, Co Mayo. IRELAND.
Ontario, CANADA
Lowell, Ma, USA
Counties of Northumberland & Durham, ENGLAND
-------------------------------------------------------------------
MALEY/MELIA/MALLEY  - with or without " O "
Westport Co Mayo. Northumberland
-------------------------------------------------------------------
DIXON
Cumberland.. Brampton, Carlisle, ENGLAND

Census information is Crown Copyright. from www.nationalarchives.

Offline patrexjax

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Re: Percy/Patterson marriage - borders
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 01 March 07 01:28 GMT (UK) »
Hello Michael, Thank you for your comments; I have both NBL and Co Durham marriage index (done by George Bell, I think) for 1812-1837 here at home. I have looked for the marriage in both indexes in all sorts of variations: Patterson, Paterson, Pattinson, etc and Percy, Piercy, Pursey, etc. They do not appear to be there. I had been told that if they married in a Presbyterian church it would not be in this index. Is this so? The preface leads me to believe that this index only covers Church of England marriages. I have also checked the IGI and it is not there. Do you know of any other source for this mystery marriage? Thanks again for your input. Pat
ARCHIBALD/ARCHBALD: Tweedmouth, NBL; CHARLTON: Ponteland, NBL;
ERRINGTON: West Denton, NBL; 
FAIRLESS: Longbenton, NBL;
HARDING: Hollinside, Co. Durham;
KING: Newcastle-on-Tyne & Berwickshire;
LOCKEY: Ryton, Whickham, Co. Durham & YKS; NICHOLSON: Ponteland, Newburn, NBL; PAXTON: Norham, NBL;
PAULIN: Berwickshire; REAY, Ponteland, NBL;
SCOTT: Norham, NBL; SELBY: Tweedmouth, NBL;
SLIGH: Berwickshire; SPOOR: Whickham & Ryton;
WIDDRINGTON: NBL

Offline Michael Dixon

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Re: Percy/Patterson marriage - borders
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 01 March 07 10:10 GMT (UK) »
Pat,

The Northumberland Marriage Index includes only Anglican marriages simply because, in theory, they were the ONLY marriages that could have taken place.

Under English/Welsh law, ( Marriage Act of 1753) the ONLY legal way to marry was in a church of the established faith = Church of England = Anglican.

People of Jewish or Quaker faith were exempt from this legislation.

Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists, etc,  had a stark choice.....

*Marry in an Anglican Church( to them , the "wrong" church)
*Not marry ( any children thus illegitimate, bringing                 complications including inheritance etc)
*Marry outside England/Wales (e.g. Scotland)...

That is not to say that "secret" marriages did not take place in "non-conformist" churches  (baptisms in other-than CofE, were not forbidden), but as for as the state was concerned, any such marriage was null.


The Marriage Act of 1836 and other bits of legislation, brought in sweeping changes, effective from July 1837, including the civil registration of BMD, allowing the "non-cornformists" to marry in their "own" church, and non-denominational marriages in a Register Office.

So, in theory, before July 1837, the ONLY marriages were CofE marriages.

Many English crossed into Scotland to avoid marrying in the "wrong" church. All did not necessarily marry in the "right" church.

For example, some marriages were conducted in the toll booth on the Scottish side of the bridge over the River Tweed at Coldstream.

Further to the west, there was marriage facilities at the well-known Gretna Green. And due north of Berwick-upon-Tweed marriages were conducted in Lamberton Toll.

These sites were set up by Scottish entrepreneurs to cater for the "trade".

A Berwick newspaper mentioned how the daily train pulling in to Tweedmouth from Newcastle, was swamped by Scottish marrying men, looking for business.

Most of these "Irregular" marriages, although religious, were non-denominational.

Records of some, but not a lot, of these marriages exist.

Newcastle Library has an index of "Coldstream Bridge" marriages, but they are in poor shape, some missing dates, some giving individual brides and grooms, but not as "couples".  I will have a browse for your P/P.

And if the couples were not in a hurry and had sufficient cash, they could have avoided the "quickie" marriage and gone deeper into Scotland to a church of their own religious denomination.

Also the English and others, went to Scotland to marry, because Scotland had less tough rules on need for parental permission. This type of marriage sometimes called "runaway marriage"

Although this is long, it is only a summary of the whole picture. But lots on line about.


Michael Dixon

Names.

GALLAGHER ( + variations).
Areas. Co Sligo, Co Leitrim, Co Mayo. IRELAND.
Ontario, CANADA
Lowell, Ma, USA
Counties of Northumberland & Durham, ENGLAND
-------------------------------------------------------------------
MALEY/MELIA/MALLEY  - with or without " O "
Westport Co Mayo. Northumberland
-------------------------------------------------------------------
DIXON
Cumberland.. Brampton, Carlisle, ENGLAND

Census information is Crown Copyright. from www.nationalarchives.


Offline patrexjax

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Re: Percy/Patterson marriage - borders
« Reply #4 on: Friday 02 March 07 00:17 GMT (UK) »
Dear Michael, Thank for all your comments. As far as Sarah Ptterson Percy's death is concerned, yes, Bait's Strand Farm  is in Berwickshire in Scotland, however, Sarah was actually buried in Tweedmouth Cemetery in NBL. The interesting thing is that  the 1851 census for Scotland shows a Piercy family living at the location where Sarah died. So, it does appear there must be a Scottish connection for this couple, which I and my cousin have yet to uncover.  :'(  Your advice is well-taken, too, that there is a distinct possibility that they did, in fact, marry in Scotland.  I will pursue that angle. Thank you so much! Pat
ARCHIBALD/ARCHBALD: Tweedmouth, NBL; CHARLTON: Ponteland, NBL;
ERRINGTON: West Denton, NBL; 
FAIRLESS: Longbenton, NBL;
HARDING: Hollinside, Co. Durham;
KING: Newcastle-on-Tyne & Berwickshire;
LOCKEY: Ryton, Whickham, Co. Durham & YKS; NICHOLSON: Ponteland, Newburn, NBL; PAXTON: Norham, NBL;
PAULIN: Berwickshire; REAY, Ponteland, NBL;
SCOTT: Norham, NBL; SELBY: Tweedmouth, NBL;
SLIGH: Berwickshire; SPOOR: Whickham & Ryton;
WIDDRINGTON: NBL

Offline emjay

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Re: Percy/Patterson marriage - borders
« Reply #5 on: Friday 02 March 07 10:48 GMT (UK) »
Hi Pat,

Just in case you have been spending time searching Scottish records - Baits Strand farm is still in Northumberland and England. Only just - the border is not far up the road.

Myra
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Offline patrexjax

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Re: Percy/Patterson marriage - borders
« Reply #6 on: Friday 02 March 07 17:34 GMT (UK) »
Dear Myra, I am SO appreciative of this information. It is difficult to try to do some of this research from across the pond. However, I do have a very detailed atlas of both England and Scotland. Could you be kind enough to tell me the village or villages that Bait's Strand Farm is close to? Then I will see which churches, on either side of the border are closest! Again, THANK YOU!  ;D Pat
ARCHIBALD/ARCHBALD: Tweedmouth, NBL; CHARLTON: Ponteland, NBL;
ERRINGTON: West Denton, NBL; 
FAIRLESS: Longbenton, NBL;
HARDING: Hollinside, Co. Durham;
KING: Newcastle-on-Tyne & Berwickshire;
LOCKEY: Ryton, Whickham, Co. Durham & YKS; NICHOLSON: Ponteland, Newburn, NBL; PAXTON: Norham, NBL;
PAULIN: Berwickshire; REAY, Ponteland, NBL;
SCOTT: Norham, NBL; SELBY: Tweedmouth, NBL;
SLIGH: Berwickshire; SPOOR: Whickham & Ryton;
WIDDRINGTON: NBL