CARVER Ramblings

[janan]

Hi

Thanks for clarifying that - I was thinking Ann and Elizabeth were daughter's of William and Ann so got confused.
Yes agree the 1750 death is likely to be son of John and Mary - needs checking on the transcripts sometime, might say 'son of'. So that leaves William baptised May 130th 1714 son of William and Ann who should have died before 1748.

Jan

[Easby Carver]

Hi all,

I have located Parish Church apprenticeship records for the sons of Samuel Carver who was himself apprenticed via the Baptist Church to Hitchin as a wheelwright in 1744 and was subsequently  twice married in Hitchin in 1754 (St. Ippollitts) and 1759 (St. Mary).

These are the details:

29th December 1773: Thomas Carver of Hitchin apprenticed to James Alldred, Silk Weaver of Bethnal Green, Middx.   Father: Samuel Carver.

25th March 1778: John Carver of Hitchin apprenticed to William Eastwick, Weaver of Hitchin.  Father: Samuel Carver.

As I understand parish apprenticeships, these were for children who were effectively paupers of the parish and it was an attempt to give them a start in life via a trade.   Exactly where this lies between virtual slavery or a form of technical college I leave for others to cogitate over.  Thomas would have been 13 years old and John 16.  The implication from this is that things were not going well for Samuel’s family.

I had a quick check and Bethnal Green seems to have been the English centre of silk weaving.  It could also help explain why we have no sign of Carvers in Hertfordshire later on and off the top of my head perhaps explain the development of Carvers in London(?)  For those unfamiliar with Bethnal Green, it is an inner-city east London district now and I suspect even in the 1770s was part of London then.

Source of above information was the Hertfordshire County Records Office in Hertford where the apprenticeship records are on microfilm.  I have photocopies of them.  It’s effectively a standard contract with just the details of the Master and Apprentice filled in.  It includes:

“At Cards, Dice, Tables, or any other unlawful Games, he shall not play”, “his lawful Secrets keep, his lawful Commands every where gladly do”, etc. 

Both of the Masters were able to sign their name.  No sign of acquiescence from Samuel on the document which does not surprise me as it seems very much a deal between the Church parish and the Masters.

Neil.

[Chris Carver]

Hi everybody,

First let me apologise for my long absemce, but everything has happened at once t the family in different parts of th ecountry, so been very busy, but I will get back on the case.

Nick, I will get back to you about DNA tests.

However, your posts about apprenticeships goes a long way to proving my link as my Thomas Carver, b c1760, was a weaver in Bethnal Green.  He also had a brother John about whom I know very little apart from he died in London.  I just need to find a half brother Samuel from Samuel senior's first marriage to make it all fit very well.

Chris

[janan]

Hi

Those apprenticeship records are interesting Neil and certainly looking good for your family Chris - perhaps non-conformist baptism for your missing Samuel?

Jan

[Easby Carver]

I took some notes from a book by the Bedfordshire Historical Records Society (vol. 51) called “Some Early Non-Conformist Church Books” edited by H.G.Tibbutt (1972).

There was a reference to Thomas Carver in the book but only repeating what has already been referred to earlier in his thread.

There was a potted history of the Southill Independence Church.  It was formed via ‘a peaceable separation’ in 1693 from the Bedford Independent Church.   The Bedford Independent Church itself had split from the Rothwell Independent Church previously.  The Bedford section was its southern section and the northern section in the split was based in Kimbolton.

The book goes on to describe an “interesting feature” of the Southill Independent Church.  Of its early members many came from Hertfordshire.   Given we know in 1744 Samuel Carver went from Southill to Hitchin in Hertfordshire via a Baptist Church apprenticeship, this would tie in neatly with the link described above.

Neil.

[Chris Carver]

Hi, Bev in Australia has asked me to post the tree that she thought she had uploaded several  months ago.  It is in PDF format and over the 500kb limit, so  I will transcribe it and repost. This tree was compiled c1934 and of note is the first line that reads  "unknown Carver   Leader of riot who pulled down meeting house Aug 1714"

Any queries, pse feel free to contact me direct.

Chris

[janan]

Look forward to seeing the tree Chris

Jan

[Chris Carver]

Hi everybody,

This is the first of 3 posts each with a jpg image of part of Beverley's tree.  Parts one and two are part duplicates and I think there must be other parts missing.  However, you should be able to download them (I think) for better viewing.

Of note, on part 2 is a reference to an American connection which he has been unable to ascertain the exact connection, but he must have thought there was one!

Chris

[Chris Carver]

Carver tree part 2