Charles & Eliza Ballard - Completed

[heywood]

just to say that over the last days I have checked Elizas, Fredericks, Mary Anns etc of all shapes and sizes. I would be thrilled if someone could come up with something to help Brenda to solve this! These bloomin' ancestors!!
best wishes to all
heywood

[b.c.rayson]

Hi,

That might not be such a long shot ! There's plenty of 'dodgy ' spelling in all the Census returns and the age is about right although how an 11 month-old child can be a visitor with no parents etc. is beyond me - looks as though he was dumped BUT the p.o.b.and d.o.b. are right. Will have to explore this one.

Many thanks indeed,

Brenda

[b.c.rayson]

Thanks Emmeline - will keep that one in mind, just in case.

[b.c.rayson]

Hi Kath,

Thanks for that. Have you seen the new mesage from Suffolk Sue ? Looks very promising !

B

[heywood]

yes- am on the case!!

[heywood]

I keep thinking - stop - there's not much more we can do. But as I said I have looked at and dismissed several (hopefully not the right one) for all sorts of reasons. I have been interested in Charles and thought I would publish this to see what you all think.
1841: HO107/737/14 (Westminstert John  the Envangelist)
Charles Ballard 20 yrs  cabdriver

1851 HO107; Piece: 1480; Folio: 645; Page: 28
Charles Ballard 36 yrs cabdriver b Westminster St Johns
Elizabeth Ballard 46 yrs  b Surrey Lambeth

**at this time Mary Ann Chivers aged 3 yrs at home with John and Charlotte

1854- a death for an Elizabeth Ballard, Whitechapel - no age but perhaps?

1861: RG9; Piece: 106; Folio: 35; Page: 1
 Charles 42 yrs horsekeeper
Eliza 40 yrs
Frderick 12 yrs
Mary Ann 10 yrs

at this time Mary A Chivers 13 yrs is a servant with the Grists at  RG9; Piece: 257; Folio: 29; Page: 16
 is this John and Charlotte's Mary Ann?

Frederick and Mary Ann Chivers seem to be siblings - why do they have that name?
This Mary Ann (according to the ages) marries William Phipps.
The other one according to the ages marries Trevannion Lowen.

Were they just 'farmed out' - does 'step' mean adopted and are they no relation to Charles or Eliza?
How many more questions could we ask re their circumstances?
I'm having a coffee!
best wishes
Kath

[b.c.rayson]

Hi Kath,

Ballard seemed to be a common name;  the cabdriver & wife are the wrong pair, as ages wrong for the 1861 and, according to the 1861, he was a horsekeeper, 2 years older than his wife, so it would be the 2nd pair you have listed. Eliza Ballard - the one I am interested in - was still
' alive & kicking ' on the 1891 so she cannot be the one who died in 1854. I feel the Mary Ann Chivers listed on the 1861 with her brother (?) Frederick is not the one who was the daughter of John & Charlotte Chivers, who didn't  have a son Frederick anyway.  I have the birth certificate of the one I am interested in. Chivers was also a common name and ' Mary Ann ' commoner still ! ' My Mary Ann ' married William Phipps and the other one married the man with the strange name of Trevannian Lowen, therefore they must be two different people. Am rapidly coming to the conclusion this may never be solved, although I will have a look at Suffolk Sue's Frederick Barrard as soon as I get time. Have another task to complete first but will come back to you a.s.a.p. and keep an eye on the postings.

Will also have a coffee but need aspirin to go with it !

Regards, Brenda

[suffolk*sue]

I think the Charles Ballard (1851) is maybe the right one, but maybe with first "wife". I am beginning to doubt that this chap ever married.
Census ages can be variable, so a slight difference of a few years from census to census isn't unusual.

This is really bugging me and really want to get to the bottom of it.
 

I am even starting to dream about them 

[heywood]

I am of the mind of Sue- I think the ages don't really count - cabs were horsedrawn so you could easily move between driving and caring for the horses.
Elizabeth (older) is I think a different woman to Eliza and did perhaps die then  the newer model comes along- with the Chivers children - unless as we said they are Charles' stepchildren from an earlier relationship. As Brenda has said 10 years between censuses is a long time to get into relationships.
 I am assuming (how foolish!) that Frederick aged  12 yrs and Mary Ann aged 10 yrs with Charles and Eliza are siblings.
I am still of the firm opinion that it is this Mary Ann (Eliza)who marries Phipps - it is too much of a coincidence that Eliza Ballard lives with a Mary Ann Chivers born c1851 and then several years later Mary Ann (same age) marries and has Lydia who then turns up with Eliza.
On the other hand Mary Ann b 1848 with a sister Caroline marries Trevannion and these three are found together in later years.
There is I think a Frederick Ballard of the right age in BMDs but then why would he turn up as Chivers  - no reason why not to but just why?
Why? Why? Why?
more caffeine needed!
Kath