Charles & Eliza Ballard - Completed

[heywood]

Caroline is here in 1881 RG11; Piece: 317; Folio: 12; Page: 18

I did look back for her and she is the daughter of John and Charlotte. Mary Ann and Caroline are with the family in 1851 but Mary Ann is not there in 1861.She is possibly a servant with the Grist family.

I know it's none of my business but how do you know that Eliza is not grandmother when Lydia for whatever reason is clearly with her in 1891 census.

[heywood]

There is a possibility that Frederick and Mary Ann Chivers were already stepchildren to Charles when he married Eliza. However if Mary Ann was born around 1851 - Charles would then have to be widowed and remarried within the years to 1861.

[b.c.rayson]

Hi Kath,

Thanks for your latest messages. Taking the later one first, yes, I had already thought that one of them might have been married previously, hence the quest for Eliza's maiden name and the possible relationship to the Chivers family OR Charlotte, Mary Ann's mother's family.

Re: the 1st message. ' My ' Mary Ann's mother was Charlotte and her husband, William Phipps ' mother was Rebecca; I have various certificates and baptism records including records for Charlotte Chivers family back to 1750. As Wiliam Phipps died in an accident in 1874 I suspect Lydia was
 ' farmed out ' , possibly with her older sister, at some time, to ease the burden on the widowed mother. There was talk within the family of the hard life Mary Ann Phipps had endured ' with no husband '. The 10-year gap between Census returns is the bugbear of genealogy as so much happened that we cannot trace. Oh well, back to the drawing board !

Regards, Brenda

[heywood]

Hi Brenda,
Yes I agree back to the drawing board. I have exhausted the records that I can see and I have to say that without the benfit of your paperwork - all censuses point to the Ballard connection for Mary Ann. Her birth is c 1852 on censuses whilst Mary Ann Lowen- with the Caroline connection is c1848.
Therefore my logic is that as Mary Ann 1852 is the mother of Lydia and Lydia is with Eliza and Mary Ann was with Eliza - that is pretty good evidence of connection.
Caroline is connected to Lowen as his sister in law and she is single so back track her to John and Charlotte and their Mary Anne.
There could be two John Chivers - both with daughters Mary Ann - if her dad is given as John on the marriage certificate to William Phipps.
Yes it is complicated and perhaps time to start again!
best wishes and if there is anything I can help with- please get back- although I do seem to be a thorn in your side- sorry- don't mean to be.
take care
Kath

[suffolk*sue]

1881

Eliza Balard - 63 - born St George in the East


RG11/339
Folio 12
Page 17
6, Grays Inn Passage

[b.c.rayson]

"Suffolk Sue ",
Many thanks - have not seen that spelling previously so it might be helpful.
Regards, Brenda

1881

Eliza Balard - 63 - born St George in the East


RG11/339
Folio 12
Page 17
6, Grays Inn Passage

[b.c.rayson]

Hi Kath,

Not a thorn in my side by any means. It's useful to swop ideas with someone else even if the brickwall doesn't disappear. ' My ' Mary Ann was definitely born in 1848 (25th Feb) but, as we know, they none of them seemed sure when or where they were born AND they told ' porkies ' in my opinion - whatever the census taker wanted to hear or maybe he couldn't read his own notes in the evening when he filled in the ' proper ' forms!  I have one who was born, lived and married in a particular area of London, moved after marriage to another area, gave correct p.o.b. on the next 3 census returns then on the 4th return, gave a totally different area, miles away from real place, wasn't working there and his wife didn't come from the quoted area, either !!! Am convinced they did it deliberately to confuse those coming later.

If I solve it, I'll let you know. In the meantime, thanks for all the time you've spent on it.

Best wishes, Brenda

[suffolk*sue]

A big longshot

1851

William BETTS - 47 - sawyer - born Wapping
Sarah - BETTS - wife - 39 - born Sussex
Thomas J. SKINNER - 9 - wifes son - born Holborn
Frederick BARRARD -11 months - visitor - born Bethnal Green



HO 107/1539  -  Bethnal Green
Folio 21
Page 35

[Emmeline]

Hello BCR - Just a little thing but I found my Benjamin Ballard under Ballad - no doubt you have already checked this spelling. Good luck..........