Charles & Eliza Ballard - Completed

[heywood]

Righto- I understand that- bu twhat I am really saying is that you said 'they were married in Whitechapel in 1851' do you know this or are you just assuming that they did?

I have just checked the full BMD for June quarter 1851 (Charles Ballard is on Free BMD June 1851- Whitechapel )  no Eliza Chivers - well there is one but she is in Marlborough -not yours.

[dawnsh]

From IGI

Marriage 26 May 1851 Spitalfields Christ Church, Stepney

Charles Ballard & Mary Ann Hutton

[heywood]

Hi dawnsh,
do you know I don't think I checked IGi for the marriage - however b c rayson is looking for an Eliza. It is such a bother - trying to trace Frederick CHivers in 1851 - feel that he would answer a few questions!
take care
heywood

[b.c.rayson]

Hi Heywood,
Yes Frederick is a nuisance ! In fact all the Chivers ' are !!! BTW, Lydia Phipps is NOT Eliza Ballard's granddaughet - I don't care what the cenus return says. They all said the first thing that came into their heads which is why we all have such trouble with ancestry.

Regards, BCR

[heywood]

Oh no! - and I feel I know them so well!!
perhaps then Mary Ann is no relation.

to date:
1861 census  Mary Ann Chivers 10 yrs stepdaughter to Eliza
1867: marriage William Phipps and Mary Ann Chivers (possible bride)
1871: William Phipps and Mary A Phipps 19yrs plus daughters - Emma R aged   2 yrs and  Lydia 2 months
1881: Mary, Emma and Lydia are visiting William and Emmeline Folkard and family - whoever they may be.
1891: Lydia Phipps 20 yrs - 'grandaughter' to ELiza Ballard.

I agree with dodgy relationships- often 'step' and 'in law' were interchanged but the details above do follow through to some sort of relationship.
regards
Kath

[b.c.rayson]

Hi Kath,
Thanks for that reply. I don't know who the Folkard's are, either, but traced them via Census etc. from their origins in East Anglia to London and it meant absolutely nothing ! There were 2 Mary Ann Chivers in the same area with same d.o.b's. Makes it much more interesting, doesn't it ! This is why I want to try and find the maiden name of Eliza Ballard. The Mary Ann who married William Phipps belongs to me, as it were, and have heard from a distant cousin that someone contacted him, claiming ' his ' Mary Ann was ours. Looked at his tree on Ancestry and he has mixed them up - correct parents for ' our ' Mary Ann but he has ' married ' her to a different person, i.e. not William Phipps. Sent him a message telling him but think he is either offended or doesn't believe me as no reply. I'm beginning to feel I know you quite well, also.

Regards, Brenda

[heywood]

Hi Brenda,
So.... if Mary Ann Chivers who married William Phipps is yours - then Lydia must be yours if she is Eliza's 'grandchild' .
I know I must seem obsessed about certificates - the marriage cert would have her father - if she has one.
There is a marriage 1871 - Mary Ann Chivers to Trevannion Stephen Lowen 1871 Bethnal Green who I suspect is the 'other' Mary Ann but this would not then link Lydia and Eliza! What a mess!!
speak to you later no doubt!

[heywood]

Have tracked Mary Ann Lowen and in 1881 she has a sister Caroline Chivers with her - so  I know she doesn't need discounting but she can be now.

[b.c.rayson]

Hi Kath,
Thanks for your 2 messages. Yes, it's a nightmare !. Lydia Phipps is
my grandmother, actually,  so I know she was not the granddaughter of Eliza Ballard. I have her birth and marriage certificates anyway. The Mary Ann Lowen  is the ' other ' one and I am interested in that 1881 entry you found showing the sister Caroline Chivers. If she is the one born in 1850 then she is a sister to ' my ' Mary Ann and not to the other Mary Ann, but probably her sister-in-law. Oh, what a tangled web we weave etc. !!!

Am sure I will be in touch again.

Brenda