Author Topic: Parish Registers  (Read 46667 times)

Offline matt94

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Re: Parish Registers
« Reply #99 on: Saturday 23 April 11 01:00 BST (UK) »
As a regular user of the Berkshire Record Office (I visit around 10-15 times annually) I realise that I am in a privileged position with regards to other Berkshire researchers, for example Peter Hyde in Canada. My research, therefore, has allowed me to acquaint myself with the services that the Berkshire Record Office and the Berkshire Family History Society have to offer, and what records are held.

Firstly, although I agree with Peter about the County Archivist and his staff not exactly complying to the terms of their ethos, I also understand that their hands are tied with the Copyright being held by the incumbant of individual parish churches, the Diocesian structure and the unique way that Berkshire has been divided into Unitary Authorities, each with their own separate District Councils and systems. Therefore, I feel it is unfair that the County Archivist and the BRO itself is to 'blame' for not allowing their records to be published digitally, or indeed scanned by the LDS. The power to sanction this is not entirely in their hands, and rely on many other different organisations to comply. That, and the fact that Copyright of these records would be almost impossible to enforce, mean that the BRO and the 'board' are reluctant to allow access to their records online. Understandably so, for although this would provide free and more liberal access to the records at our leisure, it would also mean the death of the BRO as although I am aware that the Parish Registers aren't ALL what they have to offer, a large part of the attraction of genealogists and local historians to BRO itself is reliant on the Parish Registers they hold.

In my opinion, it is wholly unjustified to be solely critical of the system that the BRO and BFHS maintain with regards to the Parish Registers. For although individual parishes may remain untranscribed or undeniably difficult to access, there are many publications produced by the BRO in conjunction with the BFHS, covering a variety of topics. In fairness to the BRO, they are allowing less familiar records to be transcribed and made more available to the general public through companies such as the EurekA Partnership. Although Genealogy in the 21st Century is a huge thing, I can't help but think that the main progression into popularity in this day and age is the Internet. The LDS online have many Berkshire parishes covered, and although there is little progress made by FreeReg, and a lack of records on subscription websites such as FindMyPast, at least records online do exist for Berkshire. Inevitably, that is little comfort for researchers who live far away from the BRO, but at least progress is being made, although I understand that the BRO are reluctant to put these records online, but understandably so.

With publications such as the Berkshire Burial Index and the newly-released Berkshire Marriage Index, I feel it is unfair to brand the BRO as unwilling to release these records. Granted that these records may be pricey, they do offer an unparalled advantage over other Counties. I am unaware of any such project available today produced by any other CRO or FHS, but please do correct me if I am incorrect.

As for the extortionate amount to pay for records printed or photographed at CRO's and BRO especially, I am of a split opinion on this matter. On the one hand, the prices are extortionate at 50pence per A4 or A3 copy, or #1 per photograph (which at #5 for an all-day camera pass at Centre of Bucks Studies or free at The National Archives is outrageous), I believe that one must compare these fees with the bigger picture, so-to-speak. In comparison to the price of Certificates in England and Wales, being #9.25 each, the 50p printout does not seem as exhorbitary, especially if these printouts are being sought from Parish Registers, which offer very similar information to that given in Certificates. I feel that Genealogy is not a 'cheap' hobby strictly speaking, and one could spend a fortune on it, but that if we choose to continue with our hobby, we must be prepared to spend money to receive the information requested (although I definitely agree that the price VicWinAnn was quoted is absolutely outrageous). After speaking with various Genealogists and Rootschatters, who concede that while the pricing is high at CRO's and at the BRO in particular, the money they receive from the printouts and copies, etc, contribute to a large proportion of the money they receive. I feel I am digressing.

The point I am trying to make is although, as stated before, the BRO do nothing but offer the 'bare minimum' in terms of their free services to the general public, the cost of allowing these records to be digitised and put online could cause a greater detramental effect to the BRO due to lost revenue, and ultimately mean that the records we seek to see online will no longer be purchased, or kept, by the BRO.

All in all, I believe that each and every one of us will have our opinions on what records should be released, to whom and when. But ultimately the power lays out of our hands and in the hands of the Diocese, the local government, the BRO and the various UA Councils. I neither agree that the BRO is incorrect in not allowing their Parish Registes to be digitised and released, nor disagree. I feel that the situation is a complex one that has many possible solutions and answers, which I am afraid I cannot give.

Matt
Aged 16 years.
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Offline newburychap

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Re: Parish Registers
« Reply #100 on: Saturday 23 April 11 11:59 BST (UK) »
You misunderstand the situation Matt - the BRO is not preventing online PR access, the owners (through the Diocese of Oxford) are the ones who are putting up the barriers.

The same situation applies to Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire church records.

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Offline Sloe Gin

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Re: Parish Registers
« Reply #101 on: Saturday 23 April 11 13:57 BST (UK) »
With publications such as the Berkshire Burial Index and the newly-released Berkshire Marriage Index, I feel it is unfair to brand the BRO as unwilling to release these records. Granted that these records may be pricey, they do offer an unparalled advantage over other Counties. I am unaware of any such project available today produced by any other CRO or FHS, but please do correct me if I am incorrect.

I do think, in general, FHS's would make more money by offering these products at a lower price.  All the hard work has been done by volunteers (bless them) so the costs are minimal.   The newly-released marriage index is much too pricey for me, given that this is a first edition with the vast majority of the data still to come.  They might sell 2 at £20, but I bet they'd sell up to 10 at £8!

Recently, after much agonising, I paid £25 for a complete marriage index on CD from another FHS.  While the data is invaluable and has taken many many hours to collate, the product itself is very shoddy and not user-friendly, contains no key to abbreviations and symbols, and has many errors.  It really is very amateur.  We have had to export all the data into an Excel file in order to be able to make use of it.  Which prompted us to wonder - why not just offer it as a download for a couple of quid or (shock horror) FREE?  Bet they hardly sell any at £25.

By contrast, I think the Berks FHS individual PR discs are very reasonably priced, and I'm grateful that Berkshire issues them separately instead of bundled on one disc, as do other FHS including Oxon.  None of the parishes I want are on the same CD, and at £17+ a time it's too much - as a result they get nothing from me.  No one's a winner there.
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Offline matt94

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Re: Parish Registers
« Reply #102 on: Sunday 24 April 11 11:17 BST (UK) »
By contrast, I think the Berks FHS individual PR discs are very reasonably priced, and I'm grateful that Berkshire issues them separately instead of bundled on one disc, as do other FHS including Oxon.  None of the parishes I want are on the same CD, and at £17+ a time it's too much - as a result they get nothing from me.  No one's a winner there.

I agree, Sloe Gin. For the Burial Index and Marriage Index from the Berkshire Family History Society, the pricing structure (£20 for 1st Edition Marriage Index with 346,000 names and £16 for 9th Edition Burial Index with 720,000 names) is very fair considering doubtless hours of transcription, collation and production to produce such thorough and user-friendly data for the general public. I think that this data is invaluable in comparison to other counties and even though it may be pricey, I think that in comparison to the OFHS Marriage Index, for instance, at £50, the Berkshire Indexes are priced rather fairly. Think of the amount of ancestors and forbears are included on a disc with 720,000 names! As an owner of this publication I have had no regrets in purchasing it - it has been nothing but useful in my tree.

The Parish Register discs from Berks FHS are also very well priced for the information covered, and offers an advantage over OFHS publications due to the fact that the OFHS often produce their publications on Fiche rather than on CD, and as Sloe Gin said, they often bundle many parish registers together on one disc that isn't often worth the money if you don't have any research in the other parishes.

I do agree though Sloe Gin that if the Indexes were more reasonably priced in the first place then sales would be encouraged...leading to more sales and therefore more profit for the FHS in general. I am just glad though that these indexes exist, or my research wouldn't be at the stage it is today.

Matt
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Offline Sloe Gin

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Re: Parish Registers
« Reply #103 on: Sunday 24 April 11 12:07 BST (UK) »

For the Burial Index and Marriage Index from the Berkshire Family History Society, the pricing structure (£20 for 1st Edition Marriage Index with 346,000 names and £16 for 9th Edition Burial Index with 720,000 names)

But there you highlight my point, Matt - on the one hand £16 for 720k names ... surely the embryo Marriage Index with half as much data would be much more attractive at half the price?  I'd buy it for that price, and would then pay to upgrade as and when more data is added.
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Offline matt94

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Re: Parish Registers
« Reply #104 on: Sunday 24 April 11 19:20 BST (UK) »
Don't get me wrong, Sloe Gin, I agree - I would much rather pay a lower price for the Marriage Index, and then pay further amounts for the future upgrades. This would then encourage more sales - as you say, they might sell 2 at #20 each, but then more would be encouraged if they were at a lower price.

As it stands, I can't afford the Marriage Index and the upgrades when I can easily access the RO at Reading and view all the marriages for free. When there are far more names and marriages included, I will be more tempted to buy the disc but I can't help feeling that won't be for a few more years.
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Offline stonechat

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Re: Parish Registers
« Reply #105 on: Monday 25 April 11 07:18 BST (UK) »
Comparatively the charge is in the middle

Counties I have in my tree

Surrey Charge only £11
But if you want an update, the full charge applies unlike Berks

Hunts Charge £26 (there haven't been updates)

I have one from Yorkshire that is £15 for one parish of marriages but only goes back to 1678

North east Cheshire Marriage Index is £17.50

So Berkshire's charges are not exceptional

Different counties have different policies at both the RO and the FHS





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