My HOLLICK Conundrum

[Q.]

I believed Frederick Hollick b. abt 1854 Crouchfield, Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, was the son of William Hollick b. abt. 1811 Hemel Hempstead and Eliza Scrivener b. abt 1812 Redbourne, Hertfordshire, until I realized...

William Hollick died in 1844.

I was a little disappointed.

So, while it's obvious William couldn't be the father, I'm wondering if Eliza is even the mother?  Could Frederick be the son of his wayward "sister"?  Both mother and sister are named "Eliza", who is the real mother and would she please stand up?  Why can't I find Fredericks birth record?  And who is his father?  Inquiring minds want to know!

It's just like The Days of Our Lives.

::Sigh::

Any suggestions?

Q.

[Necromancer]

seen the 1851 census - theres an older daughter ...

HO107/1715; Folio: 282; Page: 16 - Hemel Hempsted
Crouch Field
 
Eliza Hollock [sic] 39  Widow Head SchoolMistress Herts, Redbourn
William Hollock 16  son Coal Carter Hemel H
Elizabeth Hollock 14  dau Straw Plaiter do
Eliza Hollock 8  dau do do

Sarah Shephard 19 Unmarried Niece Middx, Edgware
 
Martha Woodward 29 Married  Sister Hemel H
William Woodward 4  Nephew do
John Woodward 1 Nephew do

[Trees]

Even though Eliza's husband died he still could be the older Eliza's son  I'm afraid I have an instant of this on one of my trees. I was shocked to see base born of the widow X on the baptism record  I think the poor lady had been left with a young family and probably thought the "boy friend" would marry her and look after the children but he didn't so we don't know who he was. in a way I hope yours is the daughter's child
Trees

[SheilaM]

It's a strange one this. 

In 1861 Eliza Snr is a Straw Plaiter, still in Crouchfield.  In the household are:

Eliza 18, dau
Frederick 7, son
Sarah 3, dau

It certainly looks like she has another child in Sarah.  Unless as suggested they are the children of an older daughter or the 'other' Eliza..

To complicate matters further there are several baptisms on IGI between 1831 and 1841 for children born to a William Hollick and Eliza in Hemel Hempstead but I cannot find them on any other census.

Couldn't find a birth record for Frederick but this looks like Sarah's.

Sept Quarter 1857, Hemel Hempstead
Sarah Hollick Vol 3a Page 285

Sheila

[Q.]

Thank you all for your replies.

I didn't know if the younger Eliza could possibly be Fredericks mother as there's only 10 - 12 years between them.  It's possible but...isn't it a bit unlikely she'd have two baseborn children by the time she was 18?  That is unless her occupation is something other than straw plaiter.   The youngest child, Sarah, is listed as grand daughter in the 1871 Census, so it appears that the younger Eliza is indeed capable of having a baseborn child. 

Even I'm confused at this point.

I've been to the Family History Center and I've tried to find a record of Fredericks birth, but I can't.  Was it possible his birth wasn't registered and how common was that?   

Thanks again!

Q.

[Q.]

This family gets more interesting as I dig even deeper.

Remember that niece, Sarah Shepherd?  In the 1851 Census she's living with Eliza Hollick sr. and is listed as an unmarried niece from Middlesex.

By 1861 Sarah Shepherd's the unmarried head of a household, but she has a son, George W., age 3, and she's living with a boarder, George Chessum.

In 1871 Sarah is an unmarried housekeeper and the mother of three children, George 13, Louisa 8 and Clara 5.  George Chessum is the head of household.

And I thought anyone directly related to THIS family was going to be boring

[Trees]

It is strange not to find his birth. I have some missing but they are all 1837-39 I wonder if he was registered with his mother's maiden name? Was he the first child? when did the parents marry? was it a first marriage for her could Frederick have been of a previous marriage? or a little indiscretion ''
Trees

[SheilaM]

Could this be the birth Registration for your Frederick Hollick?

Frederick Hollick, Sept Quarter 1855, Sunbury Vol 4a P349
(I think it's Sunbury, it's a very bad manuscript)

On 1861 census there are only 4 Frederick Hollick's coming up, they were born:

1818 Dedham Essex
1849 Sandwich Kent
1852 Shellingford Berks
1854 Hemel Hempstead (your Frederick)

Do you think it's a possible    Whoever his mother is, if single, she may have gone to relatives for his birth.

If she was single I doubt if the birth reg would show a fathers name but it would be interesting to know who his mother was.

Sheila

[Valda]

1841 census HO107 441/7 folio 49 page 1
Crouchfield Hemel Hempstead  Hertfordshire  
William Hollick 30 Hertfordshire Ag lab
Eliza Hollick 25  Hertfordshire
William Hollick 7  Hertfordshire
Elizabeth Hollick 4  Hertfordshire
next door to
William Hollick 55 Hertfordshire Ag lab
Sarah Hollick 55 Hertfordshire
Henry Hollick 15 Hertfordshire Ag lab
next door
Joseph Shepherd 30 Hertfordshire Blacksmith
Sarah Shepherd 9 not born Hertfordshire
William Shepherd 7 not born Hertfordshire

(Joseph Shepherd married William junior's sister Charlotte Hollick)

William Hollick senior aged 66 born Hensworth Hertfordshire Ag lab still living next door to Eliza on the 1851 census, which helps to establish the likely death date of Eliza's husband and her father-in-law.

Deaths Mar 1844  
HOLLICK  William    Hemel Hempd.  6 418  
Deaths Mar 1852  
HOLLICK  William     H. Hempstead  3a 115

From the IGI and National Burial Index

MARY HOLLICK  
Christening:  25 DEC 1831   Hemel Hempstead, Hertford
Buried:  12 FEB 1832  Infant
Father:  WILLIAM HOLLICK  
Mother:  ELIZA  

FREDERICK HOLLICK    
Christening:  10 FEB 1833   Hemel Hempstead, Hertford
Buried:  22 MAY 1833    Infant
Father:  WILLIAM HOLLICK  
Mother:  ELIZA  

WILLIAM HOLLICK  
Christening:  08 JUN 1834   Hemel Hempstead, Hertford
Father:  WILLIAM HOLLICK  
Mother:  ELIZA  

ELIZABETH HOLLICK  
Christening:  25 DEC 1836   Hemel Hempstead, Hertford,
Father:  WILLIAM HOLLICK  
Mother:  ELIZA  

EMMA HOLLICK  
Christening:  24 NOV 1839   Hemel Hempstead, Hertford
Burial:  12 JAN 1840  Infant  
Father:  WILLIAM HOLLICK  
Mother:  ELIZA  

LOUISA OLLICK  
Christening:  29 MAR 1841   Hemel Hempstead, Hertford
Burial:  04 APR 1841   Infant
Father:  WILLIAM OLLICK  
Mother:  ELIZA    

ELIZA OLLICK  
Christening:  18 JAN 1843   Hemel Hempstead, Hertford
Father:  WILLIAM OLLICK  
Mother:  ELIZA  

11th February 1844
William Hollick aged 44
St John the Evangelist Boxmoor (this parish is not on the IGI)

This Hollick birth seems unaccounted for and not found on the 1861 census - no death registration for him either. Perhaps the name Shadrach became a bit of a mouthful and got changed to something more conventional?

Births Mar 1854  
Hollick  Shadrach    H Hempstead  3a 293

William junior Eliza's husband had a brother called Shadrack

SHADRACK OLLICK  
Christening:  25 JUN 1825   Hemel Hempstead, Hertford
Burial:  22 SEP 1825    
Father:  WILLIAM OLLICK
Mother:  SARAH  

WILLIAM HOLICK  
Birth:  26 SEP 1806    
Christening:  04 JAN 1807   Hemel Hempstead, Hertford
Father:  WILLIAM HOLICK  
Mother:  SARAH  

Regards

Valda