Author Topic: TRURO - Saunders - 1840's  (Read 9931 times)

Offline imison

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Re: TRURO - Saunders - 1840's
« Reply #18 on: Sunday 28 January 07 01:25 GMT (UK) »
a very big THANK YOU to Deb - a handmade graphic of my sincere thanks

Offline deb usa

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Re: TRURO - Saunders - 1840's
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 28 January 07 19:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi

I love the graphic!!!!  :o

I have been looking for John S DUCK b abt 1880, nephew of Grace Lane nee Saunders and cannot find him anywhere in 1881 or 1891. Maybe the only thing to do is to order his birth cert (info on previous post), which will then give us his parents names.

Regarding William Lane and Emma L Morris....
1891;
William H LANE head mar 21 telegraphist b Brixton surrey
Emma L LANE wife mar 25 b Kent, Woolwich b abt 1866
Alice E LANE dau 3 b Southwark , London
Denny? A C LANE 6 months b Camberwell, London

I looked for an Emma L Morris b abt 1866 in Woolwich , kent.

1871:
Cumberland St, Christchurch London

Walter V Morris head mar 40 Carpenter joiner b Hampshire
louisa E Morris  wife mar 40 b Woolwich Kent
Emma L Morris 11 scholar b        "             "

the only thing is that Emma 's DOB is off !!!  why i posted this is that Walter's middle intial is " V '..... maybe VAUGHN LOL ...okay , I know ...I am clutching at straws here.   ::)

I also cannot find the marriage between william lane and emma morris ...  ???

Deb

just reread your post .... ummm ...emma's parents were from Wales ...so my above info must be wrong , unless they changed their names and Place of birth ....

sorry about that  :-[
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline imison

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Re: TRURO - Saunders - 1840's
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 28 January 07 19:39 GMT (UK) »
Hi

I love the graphic!!!! :o

I have been looking for John S DUCK b abt 1880, nephew of Grace Lane nee Saunders and cannot find him anywhere in 1881 or 1891. Maybe the only thing to do is to order his birth cert (info on previous post), which will then give us his parents names.

Regarding William Lane and Emma L Morris....
1891;
William H LANE head mar 21 telegraphist b Brixton surrey
Emma L LANE wife mar 25 b Kent, Woolwich b abt 1866
Alice E LANE dau 3 b Southwark , London
Denny? A C LANE 6 months b Camberwell, London

I looked for an Emma L Morris b abt 1866 in Woolwich , kent.

1871:
Cumberland St, Christchurch London

Walter V Morris head mar 40 Carpenter joiner b Hampshire
louisa E Morris wife mar 40 b Woolwich Kent
Emma L Morris 11 scholar b " "

the only thing is that Emma 's DOB is off !!! why i posted this is that Walter's middle intial is " V '..... maybe VAUGHN LOL ...okay , I know ...I am clutching at straws here. ::)

I also cannot find the marriage between william lane and emma morris ... ???

Deb

Dear Deb

I am so glad you like the graphic - I just hope that it is all right by the moderators - you had best download it fast in case it is against any rules!  I couldn't see anything against it but they might say it is rather a big 'smiley'!  but then it is a BIG 'thank you' indeed.

Like you I have come against a 'virtual' brick wall.

I know that the Welsh family were lords of some kind.  As far as the family story goes the girl was regarded by the family as unacceptable.

That is why there was a name change.

HOWEVER, according to the way the gentry and lords had their names, there is always the possibility that whilst the name LORD VAUGHAN/VAUGHN was the title, the actual FAMILY name was MORRIS.

Having considered that possibility I then started looking in the landed gentry but I have to admit I have not checked debretts peerage as I do not know if they were nobility or not.  However, there was a family of VAUGHAN who lived in mid-Wales who had a large estate and it is now part of the forestry commission in Wales.  I like to think that my ancestors were the kindly folk who helped others, but I also hate to think that any ancestor could be so spiteful as to cut off his son from his inheritance for falling in love with a girl.

That is the sadness of it.

I simply know that my grandmother's mother was EMMA MORRIS and from the census it would seem that her husband was very young when he married.

Having been spurred on by you, I now can answer one of the questions you posed me yesterday:

Elizabeth Saunders remained with her father - and in 1891 was living with him in 36, Grove Lane, Dulwich, Camberwell.  As well as her, I then looked below, and lo and behold, there are two more of his daughters - Grace Lane, and her sons, Albert and Charles, but also Ellen, married to Herbert SLOMAN, and their son, JOHN SLOMAN.  Herbert Sloman is able seaman, and as I know that her son was supposed to have been a 'sea captain', this would all fit.

That means that Fanny and Mary are the only ones left who could have been married to someone called Mr Duck.

I hope you follow my reasoning - lol!

The children you found included HENRY Lane - he died in 1915, sunk in a naval encounter in the war.

Such tragedy - and I can only pray that he did not suffer.

So I can empathise with those of the Titanic, as my great- grandmother was convinced she heard his voice calling her.  Three days later she was out walking with my grandmother and saw the newsboards and it showed her son's ship had been sunk with all hands lost.  She fainted.  Her husband's hair turned completely white in 3 weeks.

And to remember that millions of families were affected thus all around the world twice in the 20th century.

Lest we forget.

imison


Offline deb usa

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Re: TRURO - Saunders - 1840's
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 28 January 07 21:11 GMT (UK) »
hi Imison

I have been searching for the elusive DUCKS ..to no avail. It seems that neither Fanny Saunders (b 1846, Truro) or Mary Ann Saunders (b 1851, truro) married a Mr. Duck.

In 1871:
we have William and Elizabeth Saunders with all their children living in Lambeth..... Elizabeth 30, Ellen 28, Fanny 24, william 22 (a decorator), Mary Ann 20.

Elizabeth , the eldest,  stays with her dad and seems to stay single, Ellen goes onto marry Mr Herbert Sloman and Grace marries Henry Lane.

I could not find Fanny or Mary ann after the 1871 census. I did, hower find these 2 deaths both in Lambeth, greater London, london Surrey:

Fanny SAUNDERS b abt 1846 died Dec quarter 1873
Mary Ann SAUNDERS b abt 1851 died  dec  quarter 1874

William , the decorator, is living in Newington, Lambeth as a decoratorin the 1881 census. ( he has been enumerated as william SAUNDER). I cannot find him after the 1881 census.
a possible death:
William SAUNDERS b abt 1849
died sept quarter 1884 camberwell London

I Cannot find any association between the Saunders family and a Duck family ....  I was thinking that JOhn was possible a relation on the Lane side of the family ie : a nephew of Henry Lane and therefore a nephew of Grace Lane nee Saunders.....  but John Duck's middle name is SAUNDERS so it has to be on Grace's side of the family... I am stumped  :(

will keep checking

Deb

Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline imison

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Re: TRURO - Saunders - 1840's
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 28 January 07 21:32 GMT (UK) »
Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice!

Thank you so much for taking such an interest in my relatives - you are most kind.

The DUCK angle is a mystery.  I suppose it is possible that it might be a GREAT-NEPHEW?  But from whom I do not know, unless Grace Lane's father, Mr William Saunders, perhaps had a sibling and that one of their putative children had a child called William Saunders Duck, so that we are possibly looking for A BROTHER for William Saunders, who then married and maybe he is descended from him.

I know this would make him a cousin rather than a nephew but I did call my elderly cousins Aunty and Uncle!

So it is in keeping perhaps and I just offer this as a possibility.

As for the other aspect of the MORRIS:
 the Commonwealth War Graves Commission  has details of Henry AC Lane and his death, but it does not give his parents' ages, only his - age 24, died 1 January 1915.


What certainly stumps me is that Emma Morris's father is shown as being born in Portsmouth area as that is nowhere near Wales, but in southern England!

I just wonder if there was a mystery there that they took great care to cover up.


thank you again, Deb

best wishes

imison

Offline deb usa

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Re: TRURO - Saunders - 1840's
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 28 January 07 22:02 GMT (UK) »
hi again

i have just had a thought.....

Herbert O Sloman and Ellen Sloman nee Saunders had a son who is with them in 1891 , they are all living with William Saunders and grace Lane....

Herbert and Ellen Sloman's son was called John , 10, b abt 1881 in WEST HAM , ESSEX ...this is the right age and place of Birth ... i wonder if ellen was married before.....

birth:
1st Q 1881 West Ham , Essex, Greater London
John Saunders DUCK
vol 4a p 16


deb :)
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline imison

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Re: TRURO - Saunders - 1840's
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 28 January 07 22:06 GMT (UK) »
hi again

i have just had a thought.....

Herbert O Sloman and Ellen Sloman nee Saunders had a son who is with them in 1891 , they are all living with William Saunders and grace Lane....

Herbert and Ellen Sloman's son was called John , 10, b abt 1881 in WEST HAM , ESSEX ...this is the right age and place of Birth ... i wonder if ellen was married before.....

birth:
1st Q 1881 West Ham , Essex, Greater London
John Saunders DUCK
vol 4a p 16


deb :)


Dear Deb

that is very good thinking - so I will need to see if there is anyone married by that name then?

There is only one slight problem with that - in the 1881 census it has both the unmarried daughters of William Saunders - Ellen and Elizabeth with him.

But I might be wrong -

best wishes

imison

Offline deb usa

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Re: TRURO - Saunders - 1840's
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 28 January 07 22:22 GMT (UK) »
back

in 1891;
Camberwell

Herbert SLOWMAN head mar 53 seaman b norfolk
Ellen  SLOWMAN wife mar 52 b truro Cornwall

Looked for their son John SLOMAN (b 1880 in West Ham Essex) ... nothing ...so maybe he is the nephew living with Grace Lane  nee Saunders who is also living in Camberwell in 1901,

what do you think ?

Deb
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline deb usa

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Re: TRURO - Saunders - 1840's
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 28 January 07 22:23 GMT (UK) »
back

in 1891;
Camberwell

Herbert SLOWMAN head mar 53 seaman b norfolk
Ellen  SLOWMAN wife mar 52 b truro Cornwall

Looked for their son John SLOMAN (b 1880 in West Ham Essex) ... nothing ...so maybe he is the nephew living with Grace Lane  nee Saunders who is also living in Camberwell in 1901,

what do you think ?

Deb
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk