Mystery of Great Grandfather Mc Laven

[trishmac]

Hi Ragna

My immediate thought was McLaven sounds more of an Irish 'Mc' than a Scottish one.

Have a look on this site

http://www.spatial-literacy.org/UCLnames/default.aspx

It seems there are not enough McLavens to feature but Laven is originally Irish/Celtic.

Don't know that this gets you much further forward but it's an interesting site!

Trish

[Ragna]

Thank you to each and  everyone of you 

Its so lovely that you all are trying to help.  One thing that has just struck me that their first born child was called HOWARD SYDNEY aka SYDNEY HOWARD. Perhaps Howard is a clue to his father, or brother ? or they just liked the name ?

Agree with everything that has been said and I think you may be right and he was an orphan ?

Thank you for putting in Scotland although I think I did leave a post there a long time ago and never had much luck but anything is worth a go, (also posted on Irish boards)

I just feel like im going round in circles to be honest and never seem to get any futher forward than what I was three years ago when this search started.

I have been unable to contact the children of Douglas McLaven, who I wonder may hold some more clues. Perhaps I should concentrate on tracing them !

I spoke to Lawrences son, who is lovely, the other day on phone, we have never met. He was the one that gave me the Date 1st May against Sydneys name.

Very interesting you should say about Laven being Irish Celtic because we were always under the impression it was very much Jewish.

Any other clues Ill let you know 

Ragna

[Tees]

Hi Ragna,

The only Laven/McLaven/Lavin birth I could find with 1 May date is this:

George Tresidder Hernaman John Lavin born on 1 May 1865 and was christened on 3 July 1870 in Paul, Cornwall.

His parents were: Edward Lavin & Georgiana Carbin Tresidder.

May I suggest that you would have to search a bit harder for his records at this orphanage? I am sure they do have his birth date and any information on his parentage.

It is possible that his father remarried but his second wife did not want him and any siblings he may had. Father probably had no choice but to put him in orphanage??

Or somewhere else with his relations--his or his wife's.

I think he may had changed his forenames for some reasons.

Explore every avenue till you exhausted them all!

Best wishes,

Tees

[Josephine]

I am so confused.   

Oonagh, good point about name changes, etc.

Tees, which orphanage is Ragna checking?  Ragna, have you already contacted them?

Thanks!
Josephine

[Tees]

Ooops sorry Josephine,
                                      Ive been pootling around another site.As Ragna said there is a Sydney Lavin in Wandsworth Reformitory school....

Hi Josephine,

Confused? So am I!! I think it has a lot to do with the surname itself!

Oh, as to the orphanage--I meant the Wandsworth Reformitory school above.  Would they have a detailed record on him? As to why he was there and any biological data such as his actual name & birth date & parentage, etc...

OK-we need to be a bit flexible on the surname now:

Lavin
Laven
Lafen
Lavey
Levey
Laffin
Mclaven
McLaven
McLavery

You get an idea--why did Ragna dismiss a George Lavin in 1901 Census--one in Battlesea area?? Isn't it in the same area as his wife and children?

I think Ragna will get an answer from the website I gave her today to see if her g grandfather was in the Irish GRO birth indexes or not.

I think her g grandfather may use one of his forenames for the census purposes--who would introduce one's self to someone with a multi-forenames and a surname? I doubt--I think he would introduce himself by using any of the forenames he had.

We will never know what's his preferred forename. Or his parents' preferred name for him.

That is trouble with having a multi-forename!

Kind regards,

Tees

[Tees]

Ragna,

If you think your g grandfather is Jewish, then that means his surname may be:

Levy
Lefi
Levi
Leven

Something like that along that line.

But I highly doubt it because I have not seen any Jew(s) using Irish surname in the 19th Century--it was not exactly a good surname to use due to the poor image attached to the Irish.

I think the Jews would prefer using the English surnames.

Having a "prefix" of Mc to the surname is quite Irish one. Yes, Trish did have a good point about this one--the reason I said Scotland is that some Irish would go to Scotland instead of England.

-Tees

[Tees]

Hi Ragna,

I spotted this one last night--

Frederick Lever Cannon
Christened on 22 May 1867
Parents: William Cannon & Mary Ann

Wondering if this is yours? Perhaps his mother was married to a Lever but was pregnant with him at the time of his father's demise?

I will take another look at this entry to see where it was taken in. I had forgotten to note this information--sorry about that!

Kind regards,

Tees

[Josephine]

Thanks, Tees.

Yes, I agree that it would be worthwhile for Ragna to enquire about the Wandsworth Reformatory and that person's records, just in case there are any identifying details that would rule him in or out.  Good thinking, both you & Oonagh.   

Ragna will have to confirm this but I believe his medical records list his given names as: 

1.  Sydney
2.  George
3.  Frederick

On Ancestry's marriage index, his given names are listed as:  Sydney George F.

Of course, we don't know if all of those names are on his birth or baptismal record and, if so, if they are in the same order.  I've seen many instances of given names (usually two) being switched around in various documents.

We should be able to find him in 1901.  If only he had been listed with his wife and children!

I tried to find the George you mentioned in 1901 but it didn't come up in the index on Ancestry.  Would you please give me a few more details so I can look at it?  Was this person married but apart from his family and employed as a hotel clerk?

Since his marriage and medical records list him first as Sydney, and they are around the 1901 mark, I would expect him to list himself as Sydney, unless of course that wasn't technically his first name...  Oh, argh.  The same with using McLaven on official documents around that time, unless the name was mistranscribed...

Thanks!
Josephine

[scotmum]

Post 1855, Scotlandspeople has 1 McLaven birth, marriage and death.

Pre 1885, it has 4 McLaven births, and 2 marriages.

Might be worth buying £6 of credits to have a proper look at the index and certificates.