Death in WW2 bombing raid

[Wendi]

Carole if you click on your own name at the left of any of the posts you have made, it leads you to your profile, and under "Rootschat Profile Information" you can edit your profile to include your location. 

And of course if you click on someone elses name you can read their profile ( it often helps when replying to a post )

Wendi 

[casalguidi]

Hi Carole

I think I've seen your story on another forum

It's probably not a good idea to post a link to another forum on here although it is permissable to post links to other "sites" of interest.

In trying to sort the wood from the trees ........................
what exactly does it say on your mother's birth certificate ie.

where born
name
name & surname of father
name, surname & maiden surname of mother
occupation of father
name, description & address of informant

Casalguidi

[Carole B]

Hi,
The 'link' that I wanted to post would have been an 'url' to open a copy of the details that I have to date.

I do have a scanner -  but not being a 'techie' I haven't worked out how to make the thing scan anything yet!!!!! So the only way I can find to post 'what I know' is by cut and paste here.
It may need two posts though (Sorry...)

PAGE 1

Nina Edmed - Dates remembered.

Nina Edmed - Grandmother
Parents: Unknown
DOB: Unknown
Place of birth:  Unknown
Date of death: Between 1940 and 1945
Place of death: In or near Dover, Kent, England (?)

Muriel Mèrcia Payne - Mother
DOB: 27 May 1913
Parents
Mother: Nina Edmed.
Father: Arthur Payne (deceased) as declared on Marriage Certificate. 
Profession: Painter and decorator (journeyman)

aka
Muriel Edith Offley - Mother
DOB: 27 May 1913
Died: 22 May 1973
Parents
Mother: Nina Edmed.
Father: Arthur Offley. As shown on Birth Certificate
Profession: Commission Agent
Both resident at 15 The Crescent, South Road, Handsworth. Birmingham

Points Remembered.
My mother – then known as Muriel Mèrcia Payne may have attended Cheltenham Ladies College as a ‘boarder’ sometime  around  or after 9 years of age – so on or after 1922. N.B. A search by the Archivist at this school has shown nothing. I must however confess that the two responses I had from her clearly indicated that she did NOT read the information fully, as she did part of the search on my mothers ‘married name’…..

Muriel never spoke about school holidays or where she went during these. The only mention of a ‘home’  was that of Shakespeare’s First House at New Place, Stratford-on-Avon where she remembered a (supposedly famous) mulberry bush in the garden. There was never any mention of ‘owning’  this house – just that they ‘lived’ there.
But why was Nina there during this time? (sugar daddy maybe?)

There was never any mention by my mother of Arthur Payne, the supposed father – just that she was told by Nina that he died in WW1 (1914-18). So where was he when Muriel Edith Offley’s birth was registered. There are too many coincidences for these to be two  different sets of people (Muriel Mèrcia and Muriel Edith). But why TWO fathers with ‘similar names’?
The only ‘common factor’ in it all is Nina Edmed….. (if that was her real ‘full’ name)

I have no idea where mother was baptised, but remember that when asked if she was Church of England she always replied “No – High Church of England” (whatever that means).

[Carole B]

Page 2

My view of the story!
Over time, thinking about the few things I did sort of  know, I had thought that this may have been - at least - a possible scenario, and 'at worst'  little more than romantic 'twaddle'. So for what it's worth here are my ideas on ‘how it might have been’!

Nina worked in the same place as Arthur (Offley). They had an affair, the result of which was little Muriel Edith. Born 27 May 1913. Her birth was registered on 8 July 1913 at Handsworth, Birmingham - nearly six weeks after the birth. This registration shows Nina Edmed as the mother and Arthur Offley as the father. So I think that Arthur then probably gradually receded into the background - never to be seen again (the cad), and illegitimacy - being what it was in those days - had to be hidden.

At this point Nina had to move to where she wasn't known and invent a poor 'dead' husband (Arthur Payne) and with that of course the illegitimate daughter's details had to be the same, to save poor Nina's dignity. So in effect Muriel Edith Offley became Muriel Mèrcia Payne.

 A new 'employer' (sugar daddy?) was found and the scam had to continue. He  (whoever he was),  perhaps didn't want another man's child around so was quite happy to pay for her to go away to a school that would fit in with 'his' standard of life'. Cheltenham Ladies College is not that far from Stratford-on Avon. I think he did indeed live in, and perhaps 'own' New Place in Stratford-on-Avon. Then Muriel, who's poor Daddy 'died' in the war (the subterfuge story) spent her holidays there and went (perhaps) to America on one of these holidays, when still only a toddler, with mama Nina and sugar daddy! This trip is supported by a photograph taken of my mother as a ‘toddler’ by an American Photographic establishment in New York.

Then when Muriel grows up she meets a dashing army Cavalry Captain (true), but falls in love with his 'groom'. Now Muriel needs her birth certificate to be able to marry. 
Oh disaster! What is Nina to do now? 
Well I think she feigned indignation, saying that her daughter was marrying 'beneath herself' and that if she went ahead with it she would 'be cut off for ever'....This was what my mother (Muriel) always told me. So the birth certificate was refused by Nina. She’s got to cover her 'dark' past at all costs (wicked old female dog). As long as Nina's reputation is preserved, never mind about the daughter! So to be able to marry  Muriel had to make a declaration that her details were “true to the best of her knowledge”!

Now to sustain this 'You're banned from my life' charade, Nina has to disappear from where her daughter can find her. So where better than to the area  where  (perhaps) she may have been born - Kent. Maybe she found a position, or was still with the first sugar daddy/employer/consort or even  with another employer. Who knows?  Sufficient that Muriel can't find her and so disclose her ongoing lies. Then she is killed (most likely) during a bombing raid in the Dover area. But what name was she using? Nina Edmed - or had she by now invented some other 'fantasy life'? It seems that during these years she kept in touch with two old friends in Handsworth, but swore them to secrecy about her lies. She may have listed them as people to inform if anything happened to her. Hence their (limited?) knowledge of her death. I was with my Mother when she questioned this elderly couple in 1961 and they really didn't want to talk about it. But the impression we got was that Nina HAD lied.

So that is my theory, having pieced together all the little bits of the jig-saw. The problem remains though - that Nina amid all her shame and stupidity kept the most important pieces of this jig-saw to herself and took them to the grave!


With most grateful thanks for any help you may be able to offer....

Carole B.

[Kevwood]

Carole,

This maybe something??

1901 census: Sandgate, Folkstone

There is an Arthur Offley (servant) with a Clara EDMED (servant) both working for Herbert Simons(grocer).  He was born Willenhall, Stafford and she was born Charing, Kent. Both born in 1877

RG13 848 folio 90 page 10.

Kev.

[Valda]

Births Jun 1878 
Edmed  Clara Ellen J   W. Ashford  2a 713
(initial F on FreeBMD but checked on GRO index and it is J)

West Ashford registration district covers Charing
Which makes this entry just a bit interesting - no other Clara Ellen Js.

Marriages Mar 1898   
Edmed  Clara Ellen J     Greenwich  1d 1134   
either
FOX  Arthur     Greenwich  1d 1134   
or
Screve  Leonard Thomas S     Greenwich  1d 1134

No other Clara birth registrations in Kent.

Regards

Valda

[Valda]

1891 census RG12 698 folio 19
High Street Charing  Kent   
William J Edmed  43 Ashford, Kent,  Head Married Plumber & Painter
Clara J Edmed 39 British Subject, Belgium Wife Married
Clara E J Edmed  13 Charing, Kent,  Daughter 
William G Edmed 11 Charing, Kent, Son     
Lizzie M Edmed  9 Charing, Kent, Daughter 
Daisy A Edmed  5 Charing, Kent, Daughter   
John M Edmed  3 Charing, Kent,  Son
Alice Sweetlove 33 British Subject, Belgium Single Visitor
plus 1 servant

Clara Edmed junior intriguingly gives her status as single in 1901 and is using her maiden name.

Regards

Valda

[Valda]

The only other incidence of the surname Screve in FreeBMD occur  in West Ashford registration district. There are only these two.

Births Mar 1899   
Screve  Rosamond     W. Ashford  2a 834   
Deaths Sep 1899   
Screve  Rosamund  0  W. Ashford  2a 573

There are no Screves in any England & Wales, Isle of Mann and Channel Island census indexes 1841-1901 that I have checked.

Divorce was difficult and expensive for a woman to obtain pre the First World War. She would need to prove adultery and desertion or cruelty. Desertion alone would not be enough. If Clara was deserted that might very well be the reason why she was unable legally to marry Arthur Offley if this is the correct woman.

Regards

Valda

[Valda]

Marriages Mar 1877   
Edmed  William James    W. Ashford  2a 825   
Sweetlove  Clara Jane     W. Ashford  2a 825

Screve appears to be a French surname.

1871 census RG10 956 folio 27
High Street Charing  Kent 
Simmonds J Sweetlove  19  Belgium Boarder Unmarried Painter(Apprentice)
William J Edmed  23  Ashford, Kent,  Boarder Unmarried Painter Plumber & Glazier

This is the only Sweetlove born Belgium on the 1871 census. On the 1881 census there are three.

RG11 174 folio 68
5 Upper Park Road Hampstead St Johns  London 
Mary T. Sweetlove  37 Ostend (B S), Belgium Servant Unmarried Housemaid 
 
And more interestingly

RG11 919 folio 32
Angel Hotel 1 High Street Tonbridge  Kent   
Elizabeth Sweetlove  32 Brussells, Belgium Lodger Unmarried
Adolphe Sweetlove 9 Rouen, France Lodger
Leonard Sweetlove  4 Brussells, Belgium Lodger

1861 census RG9 394 folio 45
11 St. Nicholas Street Deptford St Paul  Kent   
Jane Sweetlove 37 Berwick on Tweed Widow
Elizabeth Sweetlove  13  Ostend Belgium Daughter
Clara Sweetlove 10 Ostend, Belgium Daughter 
Simmonds Sweetlove  8  Ostend, Belgium Son 

Marriages Mar 1898   
Edmed  Clara Ellen J     Greenwich  1d 1134   
Screve  Leonard Thomas S      Greenwich  1d 1134

Leonard Sweetlove, Clara's cousin would appear to have been illegitimate -  was his father's name Screve? On Leonard Thomas Screve's marriage the S. might be for Sweetlove.

Regards

Valda