ryalls/hurn/ Davis

[matilda1973]

hi all,
          My Mother in laws grand father was Nipton Hurn/ Hearne born c 1885 in Gloucester. he married Nellie Davis 1913 at cheltham reg office. Her father was James Davis General Hawker, and his John Hurn farm laborer .
  i have no father info on Nellie and would love to know who she is and where she came from.
    i have found Nipton in the 1901, 1891 census, under the name Ryals/ Riles with his parents John Riles and Triente (who was a Hurn) at some point between 1901 and 1913 he went to using his mothers maiden name of Hurn. would love to find a birth or baptism for him, and some info for John Riles/Ryalls and his parents.
   John and Trientes children were:
                         Ada                 
                        Aldolphus
                        Caleb
                         Isaac
                         Nipton
                         Lily may
 any ideas greatfully received many thanks Louise

[CatOne]

I guess this is the family you mean?

1891 RG12/2041 Folio 104 Page 21
Gipsy Caravan, Prestbury, Gloucestershire
John Riles 36 Pegmaker Wood Glos Cranham
Sciante? 38 Hawker Lincolnsh Peterborough
Ada 14 Employed at home Dom Herefordshire Westport?
Dalford 10 Herefordshire Camfroom?
Nephine 6 Glos Prestbury
Caleb 4 Glos Staverton

1901 RG13/2469 Folio 26 Page 8
Lower Field E/C H, Van and Tents Gipsies, Elmstone Hardwicke, Gloucestershire
John Ryals 44 Gipsy Licenced Hawk Cranham Glos
Tryfinia 45 Peterborough
Ad..lphus 19 Gipsy Golden Valley Glos
Sipton? 16 Cheltenham
Caleb 14 Golden Valley
Isaac 7 Swindon Chelt? Glos
Lily May 5 Churchdown Glos

Will see what I can find on the earlier censuses

Catherine 

[matilda1973]

yes that them,
              Louise

[willow2670]

Hi Louise
With the Loveridge connection, I suppose
this could be a connection...

Marriage
Jonas Davis Loveridge ~ Matilda Allen
Year 1894 Qtr Dec Dist: Cheltenham  Vol 6a pg 839

clasping at straws now!   

Sue

[matilda1973]

thats the parents on the wrong birth cert i ordered  . death cert has them as William and Annie Loveridge.

[An65]

According to the Heron Pedigree (Written up by the Revd George Hall who also wrote "The Gypsies Parson", and deposited in the JGLS)

Tiante Heron married John Ryles, and her sister Lurania or Lurena married Walter Ryles.

Triante was born circa 1855 Peterborough and Lurena was baptised 25.12.1866 at West Bromwich, aged abt 10 years.

They were the children of Edmund Heron and his 2nd wife Jemima Smith. They were married 23.11.1846 at Thurning, Northamptonshire. She was named daughter of John Smith, and was a widow, and he son of Edmund Heron and also a widow (his first wife was Christiana Smith).

By Christiana Edmund had:
Sage/Sagey Baptised 16.04.1836 Boughton Nthants (incorrectly listed on the IGI as "Loye")
Amelia b.abt 1845 Haddington Nthants
Tilda (Matilda) b.abt1836 Nthants

By Jemima Edmund had:
Caleb b.abt 1848 Leighton Hunts (or Nthants)
Manville b. abt1859 Welford Nthants (baptised at West Brom xmas day 1866)
Triante and Lurena.

By last wife Anis Smith Edmund had:
Stephen b.abt 1859 Ely, Cambridge (yes I can see how the dates dont tally but then the Rom didnt worry about things like monogamy)

Edmund was born abt 1815-21 depending on which census you find, and was born roughly in Nthants. His father Edmund Heron was known as "Naibai" and he married
1. Siberensi Buckland "Greenleaf", or "Kidney"
2.Sinfai Buckland "Crowy" b.abt 1795 in Oxfordshire
and finally 3.Rachel Lee b.abt 1807 Luton.

[An65]

Oh I should add, with regard to the name change from Ryles to Heron/Hearn - the Heron family were considered a very important romany bloodline, so a marriage into a "lesser" romany family, or even gorjo blood, would often lead to using the maiden name of the wife. Avoidance of the laws of the land would also lead to name changes of course!

This family are notoriously hard to trace - for instance, Amelia, sister of Triante, married Elias Gray. They appear on the 1891 census at Rushall, Staffordshire, as "William Gray and Amelia" - but it IS them.

[CatOne]

I guess this is Triente with parents in 1871 then?

1871 RG10/2607 Folio 28 Page 12
Taken on the road slept in parish, Newent, Gloucestershire
Edmund Herne 50 Gipsey Northamptonshire Easton
Jemima 55 Gipsey Stonyhton? Leicestershire
Alice Smith? unmar stepdaughter 35 Gipsey Northamptonshire ..........?
Zippereth? Herne son unmar 21 Gipsey Northamtonshire Ringstead
Treinte Herne dau unmar 18 Gipsey Lincoln Peterborough
Urania Herne dau unmar 16 Gipsey Lincoln Market Deeping
Manfell Herne son unmar 12 Gipsey Northampton Welford
+ grandchildren Madonna (16, Northampton Lutton) and Stephen Smith (11, Cambridge Ely)

Had spent hours trying to find them pre 1891!!  Still looking for John!

ps. at the bottom of the page after all the other families is a Caleb Herne, son of Edmund 23 Gipsey Huntingdon Leighton

[An65]

yup thats them, and heres some more for you.....

Fishtoft, Lin 1851   
Arsary Gray 43 Gypsies in Tents Cambridge  ("Oseri" s/o Oseri Gray)
Eliza Gray 36  Norfolk     (nee Heron d/o Edward "No Name")
Jane Gray 17  Butterwick Lin  ("Genti" bapt 1835)
Louis Gray 15  Well Norfolk
Alfred Gray 12  Tottenden Nfk
Adolphus Gray 8  Tydd Gate Cam
Samuel Gray 5  Norfolk
Emily Gray 3  Norwich Nfk
Keytumas Gray 2  Wisbeach Cam  ("Kiomi")
\\
Thomas Gray 20 Gypsies in Tents Hoperwick Nfk
Pasthomas Gray 19 brother Hoperwick Nfk  ("Potamus" )reputed s/o Piramus
\\
Edward Herron 55 Gypsies in Tents Cambridge
Sinfio Herron 56  Oxford   ("Sinfai" nee Gray )
Isaac Herron 27 son Luddington, Lin
Sinfie Herron 26 sons wife Not Known  (nee Gray)
Corileander Herron 4 Gdtr Norfolk
Philip Herron 2 Gson Lynne, Nfk

Thats Edward "Naibai" Heron with Sinfai Buckland.

Heres Edward and Jemima in 1861 for you....

Tent, Rodborough Common, Glos 1861
Edmund Hurn 1816 Marine Store Dealer Nhants
Jemima Hurn 1817 Hunts
Matilda Hurn 1836 Nhants
Alice Smith 1838 Nhants
Emilia Hurn 1845 Nhants
Caleb Hurn 1848 Nhants
Zepreta Hurn 1851 Nhants
Triante Hurn 1855 Nhants
Lurena Hurn 1856 Nhants
Manfield Hurn 1859 Nhants
Madona Smith 1856 Grandchild Nhants
Willian Smith 1860 Grandchild Ely Cam
Nathen Grey 1857 Grandchild Nhants