Help with ROSE

[Noreen Rose]

I obtained a copy of the marriage entry of Isabella SIEVEWRIGHT to John ROSE 24 January 1825 at All Saints, Southampton, which gives nothing else than what I have written here - they both signed with a cross.

I am trying to find my husband's family of ROSE and discovered John ROSE married a second time to Hannah RAWLENCE gave his father's name of Simon ROSE in 1855  I would like to find Simon ROSE his father, if possible.

Children christened at All Saints, Southampton

George Henry ROSE Chr 28 Feb 1827
Alexander Thane        Chr 28 Sept 1830 died 1848
James Martin                   24 Nov 1830
John William                    24 Nov  1830
David Martin                     28 Oct 1831 died aged 2
Francis Watson                13 Jan 1833
Charles Watson                8 Aug  1834
Isabella Sievewright
Samuel Saint

Their mother Isabella Sievewright ROSE died in 1850,

My husband Garry ROSE's gt grand father was FRancis Watson ROSE who was a seaman. 

I have some census entries of them, having purchased the 1861 census for Southampton, and have 1881 census disks.

Noreen Rose
York uk

[Valda]

This looks to be the family in 1841.

1841 census HO107 417/6 folio 39 page 31
35 College Walk St Mary  Southampton Hampshire 
Isabella Rose 35 not born Hampshire Bookseller
George Rose 15 Hampshire
John Rose 13 Hampshire
Alexander Rose 11  Hampshire
Francis Rose 8  Hampshire
Charles Rose 6 Hampshire   
Samuel Rose 5 Hampshire
Edwin Rose 4  Hampshire
Guilford Rose 3  Hampshire
Isabella Rose 1  Hampshire 
Ann Rose 75 not born Hampshire

adult ages (over 15) usually rounded down to the nearest 5 on the 1841 census

1851 census HO107 1669 folio 1062
Southampton St Michael  Hampshire   
John Rose  46  Southampton Head Widower Licensed Porter
Charles W Rose  16 Southampton Son  Porter
Samuel S Rose 15  Southampton Son Labourer
Edwin Rose  13 Southampton Son Errand Boy
Guildford North Rose 12 Southampton Son 
Isabella Rose 10  Southampton Daughter 

Regards

Valda

[Valda]

Burial 24th February 1820
Simon Rose aged 75
St. Mary Southampton

Regards

Valda

[Noreen Rose]

Thank you very much for your help and kindness, with these census entries.  The 1841 doesn't  show Francis who has probably become a seaman, but interestingly it shows an Ann ROSE not born in county, perhaps John's mother.

I have purchased microfiche for Hampshire, from the Trancription Society and have not found Simon ROSE on any of them, nor does he show up yet on Knightsroots.  There is one on the IGI which might fit.  I believe he is in the next county.  John ROSE is here in 1881,  these are 2 of his daughters from his 2nd marriage !! 

Noreen

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[Valda]

The Hampshire Genealogical Society have a county wide comprehensive burial index up to the beginning of civil registration in 1837.
Simon's age at burial would put his birth at circa 1745. Bearing in mind the rounding down of ages to the nearest 5 on the 1841 census Ann's birth year would be circa 1766. This would put her age at 39 in 1805 and Simon's at 60 - therefore a possible second marriage for Simon if Ann was indeed his wife.

As yet the Hampshire Genealogical Society have only a baptism index starting in 1813, but they do have a countywide marriage index up to 1837 (Hampshire is not well served by the IGI - best estimate is about 43% coverage of parishes pre 1813 so more not covered than covered)

http://www.hgs-online.org.uk/

But I believe their indexes may be searched only for members of the society.

1871 census RG10 1194 folio 50
4 Anspach? Place St Michael Southampton  Hampshire   
John Rose  66 Southampton, Hampshire,  Head Married Carpet beater
Hannah Rose  40  Beaulieu, Hampshire, Wife Married
Mary E Rose 15  Southampton, Hampshire,  Daughter 
Hannah E Rose 9  Southampton, Hampshire,  Daughter 
Joseph Rose  7  Southampton, Hampshire, Son 
William Rawlance  20 Beaulieu, Hampshire,  Stepson  Porter

1861 census RG9 679 folio
Southampton St John  Hampshire 
James Rose  22  Southampton Head Married Sailor
Amelia Rose 35  Southampton Wife  Married
Ann Semes 74 Isle of Wight? Widow
next door
Vile Lane ? Court
John Rose 56  Southampton Head Married Licensed Porter
Hannah Rose  30  Beaulieu, Hampshire, Wife Married
Marey E Rose 5 Southampton Daughter 
William Rawlance  10  Beaulieu, Hampshire, Stepson 

John only appears to have his daughter Hannah with him on the 1881 census.

Regards

Valda

[Noreen Rose]

These are the 2 ROSES from my research.  Fancis Watson does have Bn Southampton on the 1881 census.

James Martin ROSE Ch 24 Nov 1830 - Father John ROSE Porter, married Jane SPENCELAYH bn Whitby father John SPENCELAYH, Carpenter on 21 Aug 1846 Middlesbrough  Children James ROSE Bn 1850 John Bn 1847 died 1848

Francis Watson ROSE at St Hildas Church Hartlepool 16 Aug 1857 married Jane ROSE Widow previous name SPENCELAYH.  His father John ROSE porter.  Her father John SPENCELAYH Carpenter - Witnesses John HORSLEY and Elizabeth GELLITT both were full age.

A daughter Elizabeth ROSE was born to Jane SPENCELAYH after James died.  Francis Watson ROSE is named on her marriage, as being her father!!

I have bought the Hampshire Death Index, but it was put away for Christmas!!

I also have the book index of 1851 census from the Hampshire FHS which includes the letter 'R'.  I had found them useful as a guide. 

Marriage of, George Henry ROSE Butcher and Harriet MOODY Servant Mar Feb 4th 1849 at St Johns, of Vyse Lane Southampton both full age.  John ROSE porter father and Henry MOODY labourer.  Witnesses his brother John William ROSE and Eliza MOODY her sister

In 1881 Master Pork Butcher
Edith Annie ROSE
Harriet ROSE 1865
Alice ROSE 1869
Kate ROSE
2 sons were named George Henry ROSE one alive 1891 aged 29 ‘Imbecile’
George Henry ROSE Senr died Dec Qtr 1883 Alverstoke

I believe this John SPENCELAYH's was one of 2 Master Mariners, and were from Whitby

Thank you for this further information it is really generous of you to find the time to help me,

Noreen Rose
York

[Valda]

1861 census RG9 3074 folio 7
29 Catherine Street Stranton  Durham   
Jane Rose  33  Whitby Head Married Sailor's wife
James Rose 11 Middlesbro Son   
Elizabeth Rose 8  Middlesbro Daughter 
Jane E Rose  3 Middlesbro Daughter   
John Spencelythe  70  Whitby Lodger Married Carpenter 

1851 census HO107 2383 folio 268
Durham Street Middlesbrough  Yorkshire 
John Spendelow  57 Wilby, Yorkshire,  Head Widower Shipwright
James Rose  26  S Hampton, Hampshire, Son  Married Mariner
Jane Rose 28 Whitby, Yorkshire,  Daughter Married 
James Rose  10 days or months Middlesbrough, Yorkshire,  Son
Robert Wood 42 Whitby, Yorkshire, Son-in-law Married Mariner
Margaret Wood 35 Whitby, Yorkshire,  Daughter Married
Edward Spendelove 5 Middlesbrough, Yorkshire, Son 

Regards

Valda

[Noreen Rose]

Valda
This is really helpful with my ROSE's, thank you so very much.  I would not have found them with an incorrect surname (SPENCELAYH) without this help.

I had tried to find some of them on the Durham Records site without much success as I knew they had Stranton and Hartlpool addresses.  Holly has many more records  to offer now I see!

I went to see the show 'Chicago' last evening  with my eldest son Chris ROSE, the first of 4 children all boys.  His grandfather Edward ROSE told me his gt grandmother's first 7 children were all male, when our youngest son was born and how would I have coped with it?  I do feel, they are the correct family.

Thank you again

Noreen
York

[lrichards81]

Hello Noreen,

I know your message regarding the ROSE family was posted a few years ago now, but I came across this while doing some research into my own family tree and have seen that we have the same relations.

I think you were searching for John Rose's father. John Rose is my Great x 4 Grandfather. His first wife Isabella, had ten children by John I believe and their first born girl Isabella (child number 9) was my grandmothers great-grandmother.

I just wanted to say thank you because your message has led me to find that John's father is named Simon which gives me another branch to my tree!

I don't know if you ever found out any more about the Rose's, but it looks as if John's mother Ann wasn't born in the UK. I wondered if you ever managed to find out where she was from?

Louise,
Surrey