Watermen and lighter-men Apprenticeships Bindings Look up Please?

[janan]

Thank you so much for the information - wonder who George Cripps is? From what you say he must have been somehow related. Interestingly Frederick married Nov 4th 1811 in St Lukes Middlesex - a church which neither party had any connection with, Maybe because he shouldn't have been marrying at all

Jan

[Spitfire]

Hi Sue,

Many thanks for the invaluable information.  It appears I may have started a rather long thread for you..........................
Thanks once again,
Emma

[loo]

I notice that there is a lecture at SOG on the topic "Researching Thames Watermen & Lightermen" on Feb.14 by Robert Cottrell:

http://www.sog.org.uk/acatalog/SoG_OrderLine_Online_February_2007_29.html

If anyone is able to go to it, I would love to hear what they learned.  Far too far for me.

thanks.

[suziegreenhill]

Hi Sue,

I'm going to join in the impudence and ask if you could, please, see if there is anything listed for my great grandfather, William (Thomas) Jones whose occupation is given on my grandfather's birth certificate (1902) as lighterman/journeyman, which I think means he was a licensed lighterman but couldn't afford his own barge.

I don't have any definite birth date / place although I'm currently playing a bit of a hunch and guessing he may be connected to one Thomas Hiram Jones, born around 1837 in the Aldgate area, whose occupation is given in various censuses as waterman and/or lighterman, so anything on him also would be of interest.

He had a son named William b 1868 in the Aldgate area. I can't prove the link but my grandfather was also Thomas Hiram Jones, and while Thomas and William are very common, Hiram is a bit more unusual. Thomas H snr had other sons (Thomas b 1860, George b1862, Chrles b 1870, Robert b1876, John b 1879) but I've found no evidence so far that any of them followed him as lightermen.

If you can throw any light on this I'd be very grateful - I've looked on the Parish Records website but I've been reluctant to purchase the CD in case it was an example of someone "talking up" their occupation on the birth certificate.

Thankyou

Sue

[suzey68]

Hi Sue
Welcome aboard, sorry about the pun.

As you can imagine there are a lot of Jones on the apprentice records (1098 to be precise). In order to try and narrow it down I have conducted a search under the name Hiram Jones and have come up with the following:-

John Hiram Jones bound 24/11/1791 in Aldgate to Henry Baker, gained freedom on 14/10/1802
John Henry Jones bound  14/10/1824 in St.George in the East to John Hiram Jones, gained freedom on 08/03/1832
Thomas Hiram Jones bound 09/09/1852 in Aldgate to Edward Walter Jones, gained freedom on 08/12/1859
William James Jones bound 08/01/1829 in St George in the East to Jno.Hiram Jones, gained freedom on 12/02/1857
Charles Dewer bound 11/12/1866 in Aldgate to Thomas Hiram Jones, did not complete apprenticeship with this master
George James Jones bound 11/07/1876 in Minories to Thomas Hiram Jones, did not complete apprenticeship with this master
Thomas Robert Jones bound 11/03/1879 in Aldgate to Thomas Hiram Jones, gained freedom on 10/11/1885
Having exhausted the name Hiram, I then looked at the names we have now uncovered:
Edward Walter Jones bound 08/07/1841 in Whitechapel to Thomas Jones, gained freedom on 13/03/1851. This looks good as he would then be able to have an apprentice in 1852 as above. Earlier Edward Jones' do not fit the time frame or location.

As far as William Thomas Jones is concerned can you trace him through the census 1901 / 1891 to find out his father's name. Maybe you can PM me with the details from your Grandfather's birth certificate (mother / location etc) and I will have a quick look for you.

If they did not complete their apprenticeship with the master it could be that their apprenticeship was transferred to another master to complete and this is on a separate set of records that I currently do not have.

I hope you can get something of interest from the above, please let me know if you need any further lookups.

Sue

[bearkat]

Was Hiram a common name among Thames watermen?
I am researching a waterman ancestor born at about the same time (1798) who had the middle name Hiram.

[suzey68]

Hi
Yes I came across a few others in my search for the Jones family.
Howard, Slade, Lamming, Gibbs, Page, Gaithouse and Macy should cover all the ones on the apprentice bindings.
Sue

[bearkat]

Mine were VAUS.  Hiram was sometimes written as Hyram or even Syren/Syrem.

[suzey68]

Hi

Thanks for the tip about Hiram also spelt Hyram. I have rechecked the Jones' family just in case but theirs are always spelt as Hiram.

Whilst I'm currently looking through the CD I thought you may be interested in the Vaus names that appear (assuming that you do not have a copy already)

William Vaus bound 1886 SEP 14 in Walthamstow to Augustus Siram Vaus   did not complete
Augustus Siren Vaus bound 09/02/1869 in Bethnal Green to Benjamin Thomas Vaus gained freedom  12/10/1875
Henry Vaus bound 14/08/1877 Bethnal Green to Benj. Thomas Vaus, did not complete
Benjamin Thomas Vaus bound 10/12/1835 in Barking to James Wallace Fogo gained freedom  13/06/1844
William Edmonton Pitt bound 24/01/1788 in Bermondsey to Benjaman Vaus gained freedom on 29/04/1802
Augustus Hyram Vaus bound 08/07/1813 in St Catherines to Benjamin Vaus gained freedom on 19/10/1820
Edmund Vaus bound 31/08/1815 in Tower to Edmund Clodd gained freedom on 21/08/1823
Nathaniel Vaus bound 08/02/1821 in East Smithfield to Benjamin Thomas Vaus, gained freedom on 10/07/1828
 Barnard Williams bound 10/04/1794 in Custom House to Benjamin Vaus gained freedom on 06/01/1803

Sue