Marriage or birth look up please

[CarolBurns]

I am trying to find the marriage of jane Ker and ? ?(possibly Matthew) Mills and the birth of Matthew in Glendale. Here are the details I have so far


JANE KER b Abt 1822 WOOLER
MATTHEW MILLS b Abt 1804 FORD

According to one census Jane is down as Matthew's daughter though in later census she is down as his wife. They had 4 children: Robert b 1842 Belford, Margaret b 1848 Wooler or Yetholm (depends on census), Watson Taylor b 1855 Wooler and Thomas b 1861 Wooler.

I can't seem to find any trace of Matthew at all though in one census there is an uncle - Watson Taylor b 1775 Wooler - living with them. I found Watson Taylor's parents were William Taylor and Susannah. There was also Isabel b 1772, Ann b 1769 and possibly another female who would have been the mother of matthew. Maybe I am looking wrong and Ann or isabel could be the mother.

Matthew is now driving me mad. It isn't that common a name (Matthew not Mills) in that area so where could he be? I can't find a sign of his death either and it would have been in Northumberland.

Any help appreciated

Thanks in advance

Carol

[sillgen]

Are we talking about the Matthew Mills who is a saddler in 1841?   Both he and Jane give their ages as 30 (ie up to 34) on that census and the eldest child is James who is 7.  HO107/818/25 F20 p5   Belford
Actually I think this cannot be the right ones as they are still there in 1851 but the children names do not correspond at all with those you have quoted.
Can you give us a census reference?   There is scope for confusion if there are two Mathew and Jane Mills in that area.   At least there is for me.  It is probably clear as a bell for you!
Andrea

[CarolBurns]

Thanks Andrea
I will see what I can dig out regarding the census with the uncle on

Carol

[sillgen]

I did find them with the uncle.    I assume you have a child's birth certificate giving her maiden name.    Have you looked for the marriage under Carr and variants?    As Matthew is alive in 1871 but Jane is a widow by 1881 then his death should be between those dates.  I did not look at the full index but free BMD has a death in 1872 in Alnwick.  The age is not quite right but it might be worth asking the local office if he is the husband of a Jane.
I see Jane's place of birth is given as Ford in one of the census.
I cannot find them in 1851 which is annoying.
Andrea

[CarolBurns]

Thanks Andrea

I got her maiden name through a bit of searching and noticing the name occuring throughout the family as a second name. Then I found her in 1841 with her parents.

The death in 1872 sounds about right as they were in that area then.

1851 seems to be the one that causes the most trouble

Carol

[emjay]

The Crookham Presbyterian baptism register has a Matthew Mills, son of Robert Mills of Crookham, baptised 31 March 1798.

Is this too early to be the one you are looking for?

[Michael Dixon]

Carol,

Crookham lay in the Parish of Ford, so Matthew's birth on C1861 (Crookham) is compatible with the one recorded on C71 (Ford).
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Maybe Matthew/Jane family difficult (to say the least) to find on C1851 because they were over the border in Roxburghshire. ?
Yetholm and Kelso were parishes in Roxburghshire.

( There are some England-born Mills in Kelso area on C1851... via Ancestry etc)

If one accepts the info recorded on C1861, (3892-61-11)their first-born, Margaret was born in Scotland, c1849. And Robert also, in c1852... on both sides of C1851.
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The Surname Profiler web site shows the surname Ker very prevalent in the Scottish counties, Roxburghshire and Berwickshire, and non-existant in north-east England.
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I think the Robert Mills, born 1842 Belford, belonged the saddler Matthew, or draper John Mills,  not the ag lab Matthew.

According to C61, Robert, son of ag lab Matthew was 9 yrs old in April 1861, so born c1852.

A Scotland-born Robert Mills, u/m, 21, was in Newcastle fever hospital on C1871 (5091-32-27).
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Watson Taylor (the nailor) is published in the Parson & White trade directory of 1827  " nail maker and shopkeeper"

See this on web site...
   communities.northumberland.gov.uk
 >Wooler>Printed Material.
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I saw the 15 yr old Jane Ker on C1841 in South Earle, Doddington ( 833/6 3-2). How do you know who Jane's parents were ?  C41 did not record relationships. And was she the only person named Ker.. I think !.  And enumerator recorded her as not born in the county (Northumberland)

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And all that, gets you no closer to your target.. Jane><Matthew marriage ??

Up to July 1837, the only legal way to marry in England/Wales was in a church of the "established" faith.. that is Anglicism/Church of England. So Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians etc had a stark choice..
marry in a church not of their chosen faith or forgo marriage, leading to complications of illegitimacy/inheritance. ( Quakers and Jews were exempt from this law)

But this law did not apply in Scotland. So English northerners could slip across the border and marry in Scotland, avoiding having to marry in the "wrong" faith. One venue (of several) was in the Toll Booth on the Scottish side of the bridge over the River Tweed at Coldstream/Cornhill. Unfortunately many records of these Scottish marriages have not survived.

This law lapsed in July 1837 by a new law which introduced Register Office and all-denomination marriages.

Blame emjay for me writing this... It was me noticing the info on a Matthew Mills been baptised in a "non-conformist" church !

Michael Dixon

[CarolBurns]

Oh Michael how busy you have been!!! 

I will now have to try and copy and paste that to another programme so I can read it at my leisure
Ican't honestly remember where I saw Jane Ker with her parents - I know it was a census but not sure which one without pulling everything out of the boxes I have packed them in. I will see if I can find it without too much disruption.

I will let you know the results as soon as

Thanks for all your help

Carol

PS I never blame you for what you write -you are a specialist in that area as far as I am concerned after all you live there and I don't. So keep writing and putting me on the right road 

[sillgen]

You beat me to it Michael.  As I was lying awake last night I suddenly thought of childrens' birth places and kicked myself for not noticing.  They are indeed in Scotland in 1851 at Kirk-Yetholm
Mathew 50 b Forde
Jane 27 b Wooler
William 7 b Yetholm
Margaret 2 b Yetholm
The reference appears to be CSSCT1851_204    I am not used to Scottish records so that may not be right.  I do not have access to the image.   You will need to look at Scotlandspeople.   You may find the marriage there too as William was born in Scotland.
Just shows that local knowledge is worth everything in these cases.
Andrea