Woodhouse Varney

[redrock]

Hello all. I've done some more digging in the censuses and analysed the evidence so far - unfortunately I think we are still missing some vital information.

1)Edwin Varney(b 1852) appears in the 1891 census as Edwin Varley at Clough, Mixenden, Halifax and his death (as Edwin Varney) is recorded in Q3 1918 in Halifax

2)Emma Varney(b 1858) appears in the 1891 census as Emma Rolinson (aka Robinson) at Woodhead Street, Pellon, Halifax. Also present was Emma's illegitimate son (registered Fred Varney in 1875 in Dewsbury, Yorkshire). Emma seems to have come to Halifax around 1876 or 1877 - about the same time as her sister Theresa - as she married William Robinson in Halifax in 1878. By 1891 Fred appears to have taken his stepfather's surname Robinson / Rolinson.

3) I still can't find Woodhouse junior in the censuses or BMD after 1871 - I've looked under every possible alias and mistranscription of christian name and surname without success.

4)Until your recent post Bovar I was inclining towards the circumstantial conclusion that the Samuel Varney aged 65 in the 1851 census at Gutter, Belper was Woodhouse's father. This was on the basis of Woodhouse being born at Belper (not Duffield), the quarter session records, Samuel being a nailor and alive at the time of Woodhouse's marriage in 1848 and Gutter seeming to be where all the local nailors lived. However this Samuel's age does not fit with Bovar's christening date of August 4th 1799 (and to me that is good hard evidence that we can't ignore)

5)Woodhouse was christened 16th January 1824, the son of Samuel Varney and Anne Jackson. Of the known contenders, Samuel (1) was in 1840 maried to Mary. Samuel (2) was in 1841 married to Isabella. If either is the correct one they must have married again. But, as Agatha Christie would say, "there is always the possibility of MR X - Samuel (3), that we don't yet know about"

6)I believe "Gutter" - the address in the 1851 census is about 1 mile north east of the centre of Belper, whereas Duffield is about three or four miles south of Belper. I understand what you are saying Bovar about "Belper" covering a wider area but in those days four or five miles was a long way and the people themselves would almost certainly have identified with one or the other. (the quarter session records also make the distinction between Duffield and Belper). Detailed location is a factor that should always be considered when trying to make sense of sketchy and conflicting information.

7)In the quarter session records the Samuel who was charged with assault & riot was a Nailor of Belper (but may not be Woodhouse's father - see point 3 above) The Samuel who was charged with theft and sentenced to transportation was a labourer of Duffield and does not fit the description of a nailor of Belper. Bovar mentions that a pop up note indicates he may actually have been a nailor, but how reliable is the note? Where does it come from?

[redrock]

Just one further thought. One of the contending Samuel Varney's died in Rotherham in 1840 and his daughter Thirza was born there (Listed as Thorsey in BMD). The location may be more than co-incidence because Samuel's mother Elizabeth Nightingale came from Beighton (near Rotherham) and is probably the Elizabeth Nightingale listed in the IGI as christened in Rotherham on 30th April 1760.

[redrock]

 Hello Folks. I have a bit more information for you.

Firstly, thanks Bovar for pointing out that Samuel (2) was married to Isabella in the 1841 census. He's not indexed in Ancestry, so for the benefit of others he and Isabella are at census district 10 page 5. I have found his marriage record to Isabella Wain in the IGI for 27th September 1810. His age (65 in 1851) and marriage to Isabella from 1810 to 1841 enable us to rule him out as the father of Woodhouse Varney.

Secondly, I now believe that the Samuel Varney who died in Rotherham in 1840 was actually married to Mary Lander in Duffield (Belper?) on 12th June 1835 (source IGI). This is supported by the fact that Thirza / Thursa / Thorsey Varney who was born in Rotherham in 1840 was living with her uncle John LANDER in Gascoignes Road, Derby in 1861. Alice Varney (her sister) was also living elsewhere in Derby in 1861 as a lodger with George Garrett and his wife. I haven't found any trace of their sister Harriet or mother Mary after 1841 - perhaps she married again. Another fact that supports the Mary Lander theory is that in 1841, Mary, the presumed widow of the Rotherham Samuel Varney, was living next door to George LANDER in Swinney Lane, Belper. George was her brother.

So, my current view of the life of Samuel Varney is: born in 1799, married to Ann Jackson in 1821, twice charged with Assault in 1821, had three children with Ann (Martha, Woodhouse & Elizabeth), charged with theft and sentenced to transportation in 1826, released from prison ships in Chatham in 1833, returns to Belper and marries Mary Lander in 1835, had children Harriet and Alice born Belper, Thirza born Rotherham, Samuel dies Rotherham 1840. Widow Mary returned to Belper under Poor Law provisions before 1841. My guess is that Mary and her three children moved to Derby prior to 1851 as I can't find any record of them in the 1851 census at Commonside, Swinney Lane, Gutter, Laund Hill etc.

The only problem with this scenario is that Julie Workman in New Zealand and to an extent the IGI attribute Harriet, Alice and Thirza to another Samuel Varney (b 1808) and Mary Hunt - there is a suitable marriage record in the IGI for 2nd September 1832 at Pentrich. I can't believe that two Samuel Varneys both married to Mary, both christened their three children Harriet, Alice and Thirza.  For me the critical piece of evidence is that in 1861 Thirza was living with her uncle John LANDER in Derby. Julie also attributes the christening of William H Varney in Chesterfield in 1838 to the same Samuel Varney and Mary Hunt and this is definitely not correct. This William H Varney was living with his parents Samuel Varney (b 1816 in Rudford, Nottinghamshire) and Mary (b 1813 in Mansfield) in Sheffield Brightside in 1861

For the record Thirza Varney (b 1840) went on to marry Jno Ramsey in 1866 (Burton on Trent) and eventually moved to London. She is recorded as Thirza Ramsey in the 1901 census in Wandsworth, London as widow and mother-in-law of Edward Bassano.

I hope this all helps. The question is does it sound right?

[bijoux]

Hi there

we've sorted out William he didn't belong with the 3 girls (I even had a note to myself to check it).  The Samuels and Marys - well I am still trying to wade through all that lovely information to sort something out there. 

Maybe I should point out my tree presented is a work in progress- I welcome anybody to question what I have there- my direct line I am sure of but even that gets cloudy as you go backwards.  Do I work differently to most people?  I use the genealogy software to record all possibles even unlinked persons and add links as the information is revealed.  It's definitely something I change and alter as I go along.  When I print a page off and put it in my folder I have a reasonable expectation that it won't change!  Does that clarify my tree for you?  I hope so.

So please keep up your wonderful work and don't question your data interpretation  because I have something different!  Woodhouse VARNEY was one of those unlinked people that I have in my database, I added him ages ago and always thought I might find a link to my branch- I haven't yet unless you count a descendant marriage..

I'll try to keep up to date with what you have here- access to a computer permitting (my laptop is away being fixed or otherwise)- it's fascinating what is cropping up.

Julie in NZ

[ruthy]

Hi All,

Redrock I do think your thoughts are probably correct.

I have a few bits of info that support your scenario for Samuel Varney. I crumbled and ordered the birth certificate for Thosey (Thirza) Varney, and her mother was Mary Lander according to the certificate - so Redrock you were was spot on.

I then was able to visit the records office, and found a Samuel born to a Woodhouse and Elizabeth Varney baptized on the 11th August 1799 - no other Samuels born to them that I could see, and next a Thirza born on April 30 1809 (bap: 14th May). I have a Martha burial for 1808 on my existing information, but I didn't see the entry whilst looking through the records, but I could easily have missed it. So I think the Samuel in question was the one above as Redrock concluded.

I also looked for Woodhouse junior's sister Elizabeth, and I ran out of time, beyond finding her in the IGI as being the daughter of a Samuel and Ann Varney 1825. She was shown as being registered Primitive Methodist, Belper.

I cannot trace Woodhouse Junior after the 1871 Census either, but I am sure I saw something ages ago indicating he was  overseas in 1881 (Rotterdam for some reason), but I cannot trace what evidence I had anywhere, so this has to be dismissed I think.

I could find no info on the birth of the original Woodhouse.  His marriage to Elizabeth Nightingale in Eckington has them as "both of this parish" but that only means he could have lived there for maybe a couple of years.  The Eckington baptism list seemed to be missing for 1761 - which is the indicted year of his birth on the tree I have, so I couldn't tell if he was possibly born there. No evidence of him in Belper/ Duffield either.........

That's all so far.

Ruthy

[redrock]

Happy New Year to all you Varney watchers. I have been having a look at the Hull Varneys and thought I should share a bit of information with you.

Previous posts have shown that in the 1881 census Henry Varney was living in Hull with his wife Mary Elizabeth (nee Colley), sons Arthur and Walter and daughters Louisa and Alice. After trying to find out what happened to each of the children, and failing to find any trace of Arthur Varney, I discovered that Arthur was not Arthur Varney at all. He was in fact Arthur Colley - Mary Elizabeth's (much) younger brother. She was the eldest of 12 children and Arthur was number 11.

So of the Varney "children" appearing in the 1881 census Arthur COLLEY married Emma in about 1890. Walter married Annie Elizabeth Goulding in 1894, Louisa married James Craig Walker in 1894, Alice married Walter Steele in 1906.

I've come across this sort of "adopted" name in the census many times, but it still throws me for a while. I hope this new information helps.