1851/1861 Census Mochdre lookup please

[Jack D]

Researching John Williams said to have been born Mochdre around 1851.  Father's name was Richard Williams.  Don't know any other details, sorry.


Thanks

Jack

[Rian]

 How about this? I just searched in Montgomeryshire. There was one other with father Richard but none born Mochdre.

1861 census  for  Gwrrid, Pentre, Esgairgeiliog

RG number:  RG09      Piece:  4249      Folio:  89      Page:  6         
         
WILLIAMS, Richard   Head   Married    M   36   Farmer Of 14 Acres
Mochdre Montgomeryshire
WILLIAMS, Sarah   Wife    Married    F   35   Farmers Wife Oswestry Shropshire
WILLIAMS, John   Son       M   9   Scholar Shelve Shropshire
WILLIAMS, Joseph   Son       M   6   Scholar Shelve Shropshire
WILLIAMS, Oliver   Son       M   0  (6M)   Mochdre Montgomeryshire

Cheers, Rian.

[Jack D]

That's fantastic.  Thanks Rian.  The age of 9 for son John is almost spot on with the John Williams I am researching.  In 1881 census for Birkenhead he gives his birthplace as Mochtre, in 1901 he says he is from Welshpool.  Confusing heh?  But on his marriage certificate his father is shown as Richard.  However, I haven't seen it yet so cannot confirm father's occupation. 

Thanks for your help anyway.

Best wishes for Christmas and New year


Jack

[Lloydy]

I hope you don't mind me popping in here BUT the entry that Rian found should be treated as a "possible" only.  Although the age of John is right for a birth year of about 1851, the birthplace is Shelve, Shropshire, not Montgomeryshire.  Of course, this could be an error, so many were unsure of where they were born. 

I think firstly you should get a copy of John's marriage certificate to confirm his father's name and occupation.  It's also worth noting who the witnesses were: quite often they were other family members.  Also,  brides and grooms were known to lie about their ages, so John may not have been born in 1851!!!

I did a search of the 1851 Wales census and found the following family in Welshpool:

HO107/2498 Folio 661 Page 36 - Raven Square, Welshpool

Richard Williams Head M 36 Grocer born Montgomeryshire Bettws
Sarah Williams Wife M 34 Grocer's Wife born Montgomeryshire Guilsfield
John Williams Son 5 Scholar born Montgomeryshire Welshpool
David Williams Son 5 Scholar born Montgomeryshire Welshpool
Richard Williams Son 6 months At Home born Montgomeryshire Welshpool

Twins in the family!!!!


I know that the John listed is 5 years of age, but until you are able to see a copy of his birth certificate, don't disregard anything!

[Lloydy]

In the 1861 Wales census there is a Williams family living in Pool Quay (which is about 2 miles from Welshpool), with son John age 10, and father Richard.

I can also see another family in Darowen, son John age 7, father Richard.

Williams is such a common name and, therefore, very easy to go along the wrong trail!!!! I have done it myself with my Welsh JONES lines

Can you post the full RG reference for the 1881 and 1901 census please so I can have a look at the images. 

Jan

P.S.  I nearly forgot to say.......Welcome to Rootschat, and I hope you have a very Merry Christmas.

[Jack D]

Thanks Jan.

I have requested marriage cert. online but I guess it will be a week or two before it comes through.   RG refs are.  1881 RG 11/3586.  1891 RG 12/2891. and 1901 RG 13/3398.  All for Tranmere, Birkenhead.

Many thanks.

Best wishes to you and Rian for Christmas and New Year.

John

[Lloydy]

Hello Jack

Thank you for the references.........but have you got the folio and page numbers to go with each one?

Here's hoping!!!!

Jan

[Jack D]

Hi Jan,

Sorry I'm not sure what these are but here is what I can find.

1881  piece missing from the left hand corner.  It has a number 155 stamped in the "Where born" heading just under the missing piece.   On the opposite side it has schedule numbers 172 to 175 and the address was 15 Railway Terrace, Tranmere, Birkenhead. Municipal ward Egerton.

1891  No. 85 stamped in left hand margin.  Page No. 23. Schedule No. 123. Address 20 Brunswick Street, Tranmere, Birkenhead, Municipal ward Mersey.

1901 No. 66 stamped in left hand margin.  Page 21.  Schedule No.118 Adress 21 Brunswick Street, Tranmere, Birkenhead.

That's all I can see.  Hope it helps.

Thanks

Best wishes


John

[Lloydy]

Hello John

Firstly, I hope you had a great Christmas

I have found your Williams family......John Williams and wife Christina....hope I've got the right ones!!!

Interestingly, John's place of birth is showing on the image as Merionethshire, but I agree that the second word is Mochtre, which is of course in Montgomeryshire (and spelt Mochdre).

From the 1881:

Have you noticed Christina's place of birth: Candrole ? East Indies (British Subject).  That could be a query for The Common Room Board

Also, there is a Son listed with the children who has the surname McInnes, and although it says he is Son of the Head, I assume that he is in fact John's step-son, so Catherine may have been married for to a Mr McInnes.  Have you found a marriage record?

1891

John's place of birth is NK, Wales, "Not Know" not being very helpful!!!

1891

I see that John is a widower, and his place of birth has changed to Welshpool


Before I continue, can you confirm whether or not you have John and Christina's marriage certificate, and know her maiden name?

Thanks

Jan