Assumptions being made - help required

[sallysmum]

Just had my first foray to the records office and would like some help interpreting the results I found.  According to the census, gt gt grandfather James Spence was born in 1814 in Spennithorne or Harmby N Yorks.  I searched the christenings for that year and surrounding years but no joy.  I did however find a James Spence b 1809 in Spennithorne.  Now because the census indicated that he was born in 1814 I am hesitant to accept this as being gt gt grandfather.  Can I have some comments and maybe ideas as to how to progress this further.

Second result.  According to the same census, his wife Mary was born in 1809 in Gilling, Yorks.  No problem – I find her as the illegitimate daughter of Elizabeth Leeming.  Hooray!  I can hopefully go back 1 generation from this.  I searched the Gilling records but no Leemings!  Thinking a little more laterally, Mary and James settled in Leyburn so I searched the Leyburn records for Leemings – found an Elizabeth Leeming’s christening in 1787.  No marriage records for an Elizabeth Leeming until a few years after Mary was born.  Can I assume this Elizabeth Leeming is Mary’s mother?  I have found her death and have sent off for the cert to see if this gives any further info.  Again any comments and ideas of how to verify this information.

Sallysmum

[wrjones]

The first thing is that I take it the years were 1800's!I would be more inclined to take the Year of Birth from a Parish Register,accepting that everything else fits.Birthyears given in Census Entries are none too reliable.

Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham

[sallysmum]

oops yes - just modified my post (I read and reread it - thought it was OK!)  So even tho Mary's birth year tallied, I fear James' didn't - you would be inclined to accept that maybe James was B 1809?

Sallysmum

[wrjones]

There are all sorts of reasons why people gave an incorrect Birthyear in the Census.Pride or even ignorance,as you have to remember people in those days did not celebrate Birthdays as people may do today,even if they knew them!

Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.

[Valda]

Next door to the family in 1841 in Leyburn is Christopher Leeming aged 70 an ag lab.

Deaths Dec 1841   
LEEMING  Christopher    Leyburn  24 269

Does he have any connection to Elizabeth Leeming?
Was Elizabeth also Leyburn in 1841?

James Spence is completely consistent with his age on every census from 1841 to 1881 and also on the age given on his death. He married Mary Leeming in 1832. If he was truthful on his marriage then to be consistent with the age given on the censuses James would have married under age  - under the age of 21). The marriage entry should specify that he was marrying under age and the banns book (if the marriage was by banns, or the marriage allegation if the marriage was by licence) should give the information who gave permission for him to marry.

Regards

Valda

[Pels.]

Hi Sallysmum,

Regarding the census there were only two people by the name of James Spence listed in this area, one born in Wensley and the other born in Spennithorne/Harmby.
Both accounted for on the IGI records, the first mentioned, born in 1810 and the latter 1809 in Spennithorne.
Like you I can't quite fathom why the census returns were consistantly wrong, but as was said before, the parish records are the ones to be believed.

Pels

[sallysmum]

Valda - once again thanks for your insight.  I keep forgetting to return to the census!  I don't know if Christopher Leeming is related.  I had only just found Elizabeth's christening record when I was booted out of of the records office, but I did find Christopher's death record on route along with an older Mary, of a similar age to Christopher.  Elizabeth's parents?  More work in the records office required.

Elizabeth married a William Fishwick in 1815 and can be found on the 1841 and 1851.  I think she died in 1860.  Interestingly William was a cordwainer and James Spence lists his occupation as shoemaker on his first son's christening.  Coincidence?  Well there is also another Spence in Leyburn who is also a shoemaker - I don't as yet know the relationship of him to my James.

Whilst going thru the birth records, I also found an entry for a Thomas Leeming - Elizabeth's brother?  Now Mary names 2 of her children (neither survived) Thomas.

A lot of coincidences here pointing to the fact that maybe this Leeming family is mine.  However, why would Elizabeth go to Gilling to have her illegitimate child, Mary?

Back to James.  I have the Banns - no mention that special licence was required - thus does this suggest he was of age, ie born 1809 rather than 1814? 

Pels - I can well see how one can get on the wrong track here.  Knowing he settled in Leyburn, if I didn't have the census info that he was born in Spennithorne, I would have assumed he could have been the guy born in Wensley.

Sallysmum

[sillgen]

Don't forget that the IGI is not full coverage.  There may be several other James Spence entries in parishes which are not indexed.   Next time you go to the record office take a quick look at all the transcriptions of the parish registers which they will have on the shelves - much quicker than looking at films.   If you see a lot of Spence entries then you can search that particular parish on film.
Have you been in contact with the Upper Dales Family History Group?     They have a very active email group who are very helpful.   They are part of the Cleveland FH Group.
Andrea

[sallysmum]

Just had a closer look at the 1841 where Christopher Leeming is listed - he's not next door, he's living with the Spences - bingo!  Can I surmise that he is thus Mary's grandfather - oohhh can't wait to get back to the records office now!

Sallysmum