Looking for a death

[Michael Dixon]

Jo,

Going on from Stan's info, this afternoon I popped down to Tyne & Wear Archives.

I have User Guide 22 in front of me now.

Sunderland Union Workhouse records are referenced HO/HI, but they hold over 70 pieces ( files, volumes , papers, )under this headline all physical, not fiche or film.

I requested item HO/HI 9/1 which was an itemised register covering admissions etc  from about 1880 to 1907.

I was refused access to it because there was a 100 yr embargo on the info.... 1907--not clear until 2007... also because the volume was in poor state... but anyway archivist had a look for MJ Gorringe.... but could not see her..

The problem was that the book was sectioned into various eras....to include current admissions... there was no OVERALL name index.... as I could not tell her when MJ was admitted or released or died, I was snookered... all I could say was that she was admitted between April 1881 and April 1891...

And it it was close to closing time...etc.. but I hope to give it another go in the new year 2007.. and embargo might be off then..

Do you have the birth registration details for George Edward/Jane Ann's Sunderland-born children ?

Were any of their children registered at South Shields DRO ?

Michael Dixon

[Lincslass]

Many thanks for your response. It is very kind of you to go to all that trouble. James R birth cert 8/10/1883 has them living at 6 Clazey Terrace Sunderland to narrow down the time line. If you ever need anything looking up in Buckinghamshire RO, just let me know.

I have my Grandads birth cert 17/12/1895 in the subdistrict of Westoe in the Counties of South Shields and Durham and living at 138 Palmerston Street Westoe. I also have the 1907 birth cert of Rhoda in 1907 in Grimsby to check the parents were the same.  My mum gave me a lot of details about her paternal side. Told me that her father had siblings and gave me all their names which is how I was able to find them. My mum also told me that her grandma, Jane Ann remarried a Chandler. So I was able to find this in 1923, 7 years after George her husband died. Looks like she got to know him via her brother in law James R who married a Kate Chandler in 1910.

These two families are very elusive. After years I have finally managed to find my paternal G Grandfather who left his wife with three tots in 1887 and shipped of to Cleveland Ohio and started a new family (thank goodness for the forsight of giving the sons the middle name that was the mothers or grandmothers maiden name)

Many thanks again for your time.

Jo

[Michael Dixon]

Jo,

I am confused about the family of George Edward Gorringe and Jane Ann. Please list them and the birth registrations at the appropriate RO .

On the angle of the bigamy... there is another element to be considered.... Insanity might have been a factor that could lead, not necessarily to divorce but to annulment.

Sunderland Workhouse was also an Asylum.

But this angle needs further research before it can be accepted as applying to the Gorringe/Muckle couple.

Michael Dixon

[Lincslass]

Many thanks for taking the time to look for my elusive rellies.

George E Gorringe son of George and Margaret nee Muckells was born 19th May 1870. He married Jane Ann Robertson 26th March 1894 in Millfield Co Durham.

Children are:

George Edward 17th Dec 1895 in Westoe (my Grandfather)
Margaret March Q  1897 Sunderland
Thomas William March Q 1900 Grimsby
Robert James Sept Q 1902 Grimsby
Rhoada 25th March 1907 Grimsby

In 1901 George E born 1870 was with his younger brother James Rowden in Grimsby. No sign of Jane or the three children. Janes paternal grandmother was Scottish so I looked there too but no sign.

Thanks again for your time. I really appreciate it.

Jo

[Michael Dixon]

Jo,

So many "interesting" angles to your lot (lol).

Census 1901.

Geordie Gorringe's wife and children seems to have disappeared ( no, I'm not giving up, well not yet). But a strange (but not impossible) factor... Geordie and his brother at 94 East Marsh St are occupying FOUR rooms.... I wonder if bedrooms were also "en suite" ?

Michael Dixon

[Lincslass]

Just goes to show. I have only been doing this for 18 months and never noticed that the number of rooms is on the 1891 and 1901 censuses. I have yet to get some 'flesh on the bones' so to speak.

I have some snippets from my mum about her father and mother from memories. George born 1895 ran off with his wifes sister, Florence (My Mums namesake)shortly after my mum was born in 1924 but he must have come back as he died in 1954 in Grimsby. But Mum never said whether she had seen him. Though my mums Auntie Flo, I remember clearly living in Grimsby. Unsure whether my Nan and Grandad ever divorced as my Nan remarried in 1937. Never gave that a thought before. Best get looking.

 

Jo

[stanmapstone]

Jo,

But a strange (but not impossible) factor... Geordie and his brother at 94 East Marsh St are occupying FOUR rooms.... I wonder if bedrooms were also "en suite" ?

Michael Dixon

I don't see what is strange about this, in the 1901 census returns a quarter of all tenements had four rooms. Also neither the Census Acts nor the instructions to the householders ever defined what a 'room' was.
Stan

[Michael Dixon]

In searching for where the householder's wife and 5 children were on C1901, I was just wondering if there was anything unusual about two brothers having 4 thingies for themselves. while others around them with 4 thingies, had a larger household to accommodate.

Michael Dixon

[Lincslass]

I must admit that the idea that the wife and 3 children could well have been there but just not there when the enumerator arrived, has been given as a reason before. I suppose it is a possibility and I see your reasoning Michael.

Why would they have four rooms for just two men? And until I find out what happened to MJ, I can't be sure when James R went to stay with his brother. It could have been the week before the census  for all I know. If thats the case, it is even more unlikely that he would have had four rooms to himself. Very strange.

Jo