1841 census - Sarah Giles

[whales]

Hello,

I have subscribed to Ancestry.com and have found Sarah Giles on the 1851 census b. abt. 1830 living with her Aunt in Holywell, Flintshire.   She was born in Greenfield, Flintshire.   Her Father was William Giles a Blacksmith.   I can't find her on the 1841 census or her Father.   The name is quite unusual in Flintshire at that time.   Perhaps somebody could find her as I don't know if the Ancestry 1841 census is complete.

Thank you.

Marie.

[wrjones]

There are three Giles children on the IGI Baptised in Holywell in the 1830's;Ann,William and Maria.They are shown to be the children of William and Deborah Giles.There is also the death of a William Giles in the Holywell District in 1838.I have also found the Marriage of a Deborah Giles and a John Hughes at Holywell St James in 1843 on North Wales BMD.I believe this couple are to be found in Manchester in 1851 where Deborah is shown to be born in c 1803,which possibly shows that she was the previous Wife of William Giles remarried to John Hughes.

Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.

[AMBLY]

Continuing from William's very good-looking lead, you will find Deborah GILL (later HUGHES  and possibly nee JONES)  enumerated in Holywell in 1841.

HO107/1413/5, Folio 36, Pg16, Holywell, Hundred of Holywell
Deborah GILL/GILE/GILS  age 35 (I think it actually may say GILS) with 4 children in house: children: Elizabeth 12, twins Thomas & Henry 9, Maria 6
The twins are enumerated as NOT born in Flintshire.

The children with Deborah & John HUGHES 1851 at  HO107 / Piece 2227 -Folio 373- Pg21
are: Thomas 19, Henrery 19, Maria 15 or 13, Theresa ( the youngest with a single digit age but age is obliterated by checkmark thru it.) Also noting, the twins are NOT born Flintshire, but rather Manchester, as is Theresa. And the visitor in the house (visitors are very often relatives) is  John JONES Blacksmith b Holywell . I think he is 56 not 36, and also John Hughes, could be 56 also - I think this enumerator's 3's elsewhere are quite different from his 5's.

On IGI:  the Twins: Thomas GILES and Henry GILES are shown born 11 Oct 1831, baptised 18 Oct 1831, Parliament Street Saint Davids Wesleyan.  Parents: William GILES and Deborah JONES

So re: 1841 family in Holywell :
missing from the household in 1841:
Son WIlliam born abt 1837  - but his could be the death recorded 1838 on BMD.
No IGI entry for an Elizabeth GILES born abt 1829, (and she could be married by 1851)
No evidence they had a daughter Sarah GILES born abt 1830. (could Elizabeth be Sarah using a middle name in one or the other Census?)
(according to IGI daughter Ann apparently died 1830 - abt 6mths after she was Christened)

What do you know about Sarah's Aunts as in 1851 - there are two of them perhaps, as it seems Sarah's Aunt Mary also has her (Mary's sister) in the house too: (though of course it could be sister-in-law): 
At Old Quay Street 1851  - all born Greenfields - HO107/ Piece 2500- Folio482- Pg14
Head: widow Mary OWENS 53, Pauper
Daughters: unmarried Mary 20, Grace 16, and Elizabeth 14
Niece: unmarried Sarah GILES 21,
Sister: widow Elizabeth EDWARDS 55,

And what do you know of Sarah and her household in later Census, when she is perhaps married? Is her age and POB consistent throughout? If you have her marriage certificate, who were the witness?

Cheers 
AMBLY

[Paul]

Hello Marie,
Is this Sarah?
Holywell baptism. July 20 1828.
Sarah Maria, Booley (Giles) base dau of William Giles and Mary Booley.

Holywell marriage. May 26 1828.
William Giles(X) bach. Deborah Jones. spins. Both O T P.
Witnesses. Thomas Jones and Elizabeth Edwards(X)
(X) = did not sign made mark.

Baptisms of children of William and Deborah Giles.
Jan 2 1829. Elizabeth.  Wm's Occ. Cotton Spr
March 7 1830. Anne.                         """"""
March 8 1835. Maria.                       Smith.
March 3 1837. William                      Labourer.

Holywell Burials
Nov 28 1830 Anne Giles. 8 mths.
Sep 9 1836. William Giles. 18 mths.

Holywell marriage March 22 1856.
Edward Williams. full age. ba. Labourer. Bagillt. Father John. Wheelwright.
Sarah Giles(X) full age. sp. Greenfield. Father, William. Blacksmith.
Witnesses. John Thomas. Annie Jones(X).

Born April 10 1805. Baptised April 14 1805. William Giles S/O Henry and Maria(nee Townsend). Greenfield.

Hope this helps.

Paul.

[whales]

Hello William, Ambly and Paul,

Thank you so much for your replies, this seems to have sorted out the confusion about Sarah Giles.   It seems that Deborah was the wife of William Giles and all of you had picked this up.   I had looked at the births of their children but because there wasn't a Sarah I didn't connect it.

I would like to ask Paul - The birth you have found for Sarah - does this mean she was born out of wedlock?   Also, I'm a bit unsure about the occupations of William and Deborah you have given me.   The marriage in 1856 is the correct one.

I can't thank you all enough.

Regards.

Marie.

[AMBLY]

Hi Marie
And What terrific information Paul! 

Yes  "base" or "base born"was a usual term in Parish registers  to describe an illigitimate child:
http://www.answers.com/topic/baseborn

So it would indicate from Paul's  information, that when William GILES married Deborah,  Mary BOOLEY heavily pregnant with his child. The  key to finding Sarah in 1841 may be to discover what became of Mary BOOLEY - if she married perhaps, and so Sarah could be using that husbands name in 1841.

Is it the OTP you are confused about? it means Of This Parish.

Cheers
AMBLY

[whales]

Thank you Ambly,

Brilliant information in just a couple of days.

Thank You.

Marie.

[bustergut]

Just happened upon this thread as I was looking for my ggg-grandma Elizabeth Giles, who appears to have been your Sarah's half-sister.
It solved a little mystery for me, as the census shows that Elizabeth Egerton (her married name) was from Flintshire, and I could not figure out how she came to be in Manchester, where she met and married my ggg-grandad Thomas Egerton in Dec 1848 (I am awaiting delivery of their marriage cert as we speak, as it is not available in Manchester).
I wonder whether Elizabeth's parents moved to Manchester to escape the heat if, as seems likely, he had also got Mary Booley in the family way.
(My 80-year-old mum is appalled - she is very proud of her family being 'respectable' working class!).
WR - just to clarify, are you saying that Deborah Jones was born in Manchester in c. 1803?
By a bizarre coincidence, the church where twins Thomas and Henry were born appears top have been on the site of the offices where I work on Hardman Street, Manchester!

[wrjones]

Well Bustergut,it is that long since I posted the info,I can't remember!I'll have to look for the entry again.

Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.