Frey/ Lehman

[johnnyboy]

Richard: I live in New York City, but I daren't go near a city office for fear of never emerging again! Actually I have no experience with New York City records. But there is a German genealogy group active in the New York City area. Here's a link. I'm sure they can at least give you guidance.

You might want to look for naturalization papers for some of the Freys.

http://www.germangenealogygroup.com/

Regards again,
John

[YvonneR]

Hi John

I do know exactly what you mean regarding "Adolf Frey", I searched at first without the date of arrival to look for clues and then realised the work involved, so I do reiterate that you made my search sooo much easier. The length of time it took me was in trying to work it out was the obstacle 

Please do give more details regarding Robert Hendry, it would be a pleasure and a joy to give it a go 

Agnes

[YvonneR]

Hi John, I think that I have found them in 1900, if the Robert born about 1857 and wife Marian born about 1859, living at 463 Hampshire Street, Massachusetts is yours!

I will have a delve and see what I come up with.

Agnes

[Richard54]

Again many thanks for everybodys replies and work.
I'm staggered by  so much new information all at once, it's taking a while to assimilate it all and check out that site you recommended John.
By all means if you wish to chase more, Agnes ,  please do.
Although I have subscriptions to UK databases, I start to run up against alot of sites wanting money for US records and it isn't an area I have a great knowledge of  and am hesitant to splash out just yet. If I can return any help in kind with UK census look ups please don't hesitate to ask.
I was surprised to see two more children post 1900 .
 I'm not surprised you found a basis for the tales of anti german feeling Agnes, this started long before the war as German industry started to effect English jobs and reached fever pitch by the time of the WW1. Another family tale is that while my father was in the trenches , stones were put through his windows due to having a wife of German ancestry.

                    Richard

[Richard54]

Well, I had to start looking at the passenger lists  they are full of interesting bits from height to colour of eyes and tattoes
 However a slight puzzle here , looking at the Frey family arriving 21 April 1922 on the SS hanover it lists  Adolf,age 65 Marie age 60 and children Reginald and Magdelina (16+18) as detained  then apparently allowed in . However it looks like Adolf changes his name to George by the 1930 census!
So now I'm trying to work out how  George and Marie Frey (1857 Steinbach Ger.  and 1861 Mergentheim  Ger) parents of Hilda Marie  relate to Adolf /George and Marie Frey in the 1930 census.
 Adolf / George said to come from Wurtenburg. Also lists them going to visit his sister , Mrs Lehmann, of 357 Madison St Brooklyn. I think George became Adolf and then reverted to George again
 This is going to keep me busy 
                       Richard

[YvonneR]

Hi Richard

I do so agree that later passenger lists are full of absolutely brilliant info, I sometimes wish that my family had arrived post 1900 because with my common family names, I could pick many arriving in the same year, from the same place with the same birth dates 

Your last sentense of your message is exactly as I saw it.... George is Adolf and visa versa. You do not often see the birth place name on the census, it is generally just Germany for instance but in this case Wurtenburg was written just above. It is by no means definite as it all depends on who gave the information to the enumerator and as we know from records here in the UK and elsewhere, places change from census to census.

I truly believe that all the info from the databases confirm that the family in 1930 is your George, Marie and Hilda Frey, there are just too many coincidences   

I haven't found the Lehmann's mainly because there are many but it might be worth looking for someone of that name born around George's age, I will give that a go 

I did find it very sad when I saw the address for George Shaw's father, plus it looks as though he and his brother have changed their surname to a more English sounding one! You can check the passenger lists as they arrived in 1916, I have also found George and john with their parents Frederick and Louisa Schumm? both born Germany in the 1901 English census.

Kirkdale, Lancashire
RG13
Piece 3472
Folio 84
Page 33

I will look for other info and get back to you

Best wishes

Agnes

[Richard54]

Oh  I've known some fun with name changes but this does take some beating
Shaw/Schummer/ Schum/ Schumn 
It had me chasing a Frederick Schumn , a German watchmaker in Liverpool
 
                  Richard.

[johnnyboy]

Agnes und Rikard:

Gruessen aus Neu York: Vielleicht muessen wir auf Deutsch schrieben, die familie Frey am besten zu verstanden...I'm sorry... I must have encountered...some strange atmospheric disturbance...that had me convinced...with all the German names and the changes...that I had been whisked off to Germany.

So, if I'm correct, Agnes and Richard, you two are saying that Adolf is really George and George is really Adolf? Correct if I'm wrong.

I suppose that it's appropriate that I had to read Oscar Wilde's "The Importance of Being Earnest" this weekend as part of my master's degree course work and on Tuesday I have to see the 1952 film version of it. You know the plot, two men not named Earnest masquerade as men named Earnest to marry two women, each of whom will only marry a man named Earnest.

I have no discoveries to add at the moment, but I would like to point out that there was also a good deal of anti-German feeling in the U.S. during and after World War I. That would certainly be enough to convince Adolf to go by George  over here as well. That feeling didn't continue during WWII because approximately 35% of those fighting for the U.S. were of German ancestry. I need only mention Eisenhower.

Before I go any further, my interpretation ist korrekt, nein? I am confused.

Regards,
John
 

[Richard54]

John,
         It was murder here yesterday, the usual busy house with sons and foster kids all over the place and me desperate to get at my computer and check all this stuff out and follow up other leads but when I did get a little time to start chewing it over I had to come to the conclusion that Goerge (1891 UK Census) is George is Adolf is George(1930 US Census).
 I have noticed that alot of the children of german immigrants had two christian names , more so than seems to occur in the rest of my UK ancestors . I wonder if George was an Adolf George.   Now I have got to find the time to chase all the leads that this message has thrown up. I don't know about you but when I get an opening I just cannot leave it alone 
  However I'm over the moon to have started to open up the Freys at last, I had got nowhere for over a year of trying 
  Enjoy the film , Edith Evans as Lady Bracknell is a hoot , and the handbag scene one of the greats of British films in the fifties.

               Regards    Richard