Frey/ Lehman

[Richard54]

Agnes,
 It's amazing how often names seem to change , Theodora and Carl get to be Theodora and Charles by 1930 with son Richard,  a Social Security check has Carl dying Florida  in 1976 , birth date seems good. Another german Mempal family three doors away too
    checked entry records  It's his brother.
                Richard

[YvonneR]

Wow Richard

You are well and truly getting a move on   

Looks like things are coming together really well, I will do my best to help out later

Best wishes

Agnes

[johnnyboy]

Hi Richard and Agnes: Again, no major breakthroughs from me. I'm just spectating, with the odd comment here and there.

Re: George and Hilda Shaw in the SSDI: Sayville and Bay Shore (their respective last residences) are near to one another on the Long Island (area known for obvious reasons as the South Shore), about an hour east of Manhattan by train or car.

George Shaw worked for the New York City subway system. Actually, he worked for one of the privately owned systems that were bought up by New York City and combined in the 1930s or 1940s into the mess that we call New York City Transit. (I think they use the word "system" there somewhere, but many New Yorkers will tell you that there is no system! to it). The initials of place of the employer in George's WWI draft registration (think that's where I saw it) were BRT, which stands for Brooklyn Rapid Transit.

I've been checking the street addresses on Yahoo maps. First, Mecker Avenue is Meeker Avenue and West Kalb Avenue is De Kalb Avenue.

Second, 499 Gates Avenue is very close to the addresses on Madison and Quincy Avenue. (The street names in that neighborhood might not have been pleasing to an Englishman or woman. The theme is American presidents and participants in our Revolutionary War vs. you-know-who).

Meeker and Engert, where the Shaw brothers lived, are close to one another in a neighborhood now callled Williamsburg.

These folks were migrating in a northeasterly direction (probably helped as much by the prevailing winds as by the prospect of better jobs or living conditions).

Regards,
John

[Richard54]

 It is amazing where odd connections take one, brother Frederick Mampel, 3  doors away, produced a wife with two children and a sister and child all arriving in 1928 and oddly exactly the same group re entering  New York in 1935. They must have gone on a home visit. the records give a wealth of information
  I'm still battling to pin down Catherine /Kate Lemann , she is stated as sister to George/ Adolf and aunt to Hilda so I presume she is indeed a Frey entering the States in 1890, and marrying Carl Lehmann in1894 in  New York, but I cannot find any records to prove this beyond doubt. Also no records of the Lehmann family after 1920     Oh for a free BMD in America   Still if back in the UK none of this post 1901 stuff would be available .
  I wonder who on the Frey side is said to have visited the children of Alice Frey back in the UK, again family story has it that somebody came back to the UK at some time
                                 Richard

[YvonneR]

Hi Richard

I have had a good search and cannot find the Lehmann's in 1930 nor anything absolutely definite in the New York death indexes!

Also have been searching the passenger list for a family member arriving back in the US post 1930, again nothing definite 

I won't be online a great deal over the next three days as I run a class at my local community centre but hopefully, I will be able to help out at the weekend. That is if you need it by then, you are moving on so fast       

Very best wishes

Agnes

[Richard54]

It's interesting following the strands that one picks up
Ernst Trump,b. 1901 Germany , a boarder in the 1930 census turns out to be a cousin of Marie Frey from the entry details, but then turns up on a ship manifest in 1935 married to a Gladys b.1901 (now an American citizen) ,could this be Gladys Frey , well the dates all fit. Address given as Richmond Hill. Paperwork appears to have been done in Washington.Even more curious Ernst Trump turns up on the social records as an American citizen dying in Germany 1988 while a Gladys Trump appears dying in Germany in 2000. It looks like they both returned to Germany in old age. Both records recorded by American consulates.
  Meanwhile Frederick Breuninger, remember him , the cousin of Hilda in the 1920 census , well he arrived in 1895, age 17, I wonder what part of the family was already in New York for him to stay with?  I wonder while  George/Adolf and Marie Frey  emigrated to England in about 1882 , another strand headed for the States.
   Frederick  turns up again in 1955 with wife Elizabeth on a ship manifest, address 52, 5th St  West Sayville NY returning from a visit to Germany . Finally Frederick is on the social records  recorded as dying in West Sayville , New York in 1970.
 What an amazing amount of connections starting from one record of Hilda Frey on a ships manifest in 1912
 The only shame is that I have thrown just about every name into the Rootsweb search but  nobody else appears to have logged any of these people

                              Richard.

[kennvido]

I found Theodora's marriage Bride Theodora Lehman, December 2nd 1916, certificate number 3880, Bronx   Groom Carl Mampel, December 2nd  1916, certificate number 3880, Bronx  Carl and Theodora in the 1920 census are living at 8507 106th Street, Queens Assembly District 5, Queens, New York.
Agnes

Hello Cousin Richard

This is Kenneth Paul Mampel. My paternal grandparents are Carl Otto Guenther Mampel and Theodora Lehman Mampel. My father is Charles Andrew Richard Mampel who was an only child born 1920. 
Carl was one of 12 children born in Ilmenau, Germany. Two of Carl's brothers are Frederic and Richard. Anna a sister played piano and Minna another sister. Much of the Mampel clan stayed in Germany.
I have a picture of my great-grandparents Charles and Kate Lehman that I must find along with my Grandma Theodora and Great-Aunt Lily (Lillian). Theodora had just one younger sister Lillian who was a twin. The twin died at birth. No males were born to Charles and Kate. Theodora lived in Bedford-Stuyvesant or the Brownsville section of Brooklyn then Richmond Hill, Queens, where Charles Andrew Richard, my Dad, was born and then in Hollis Woods, Queens. Theodora died of cancer on December 19, 1969 at my parents’ home, as we took care of her and Carl, in West Hempstead, NY on Long Island. We then moved to Ormond Beach FL. in 1972. Carl died in '76 you know that. Lillian lived in Dover. N.J. and moved to Palmetto FL. Lillian married Charles Jasinki and had two sons Bobby and Walter Jasinski. Bobby was a pilot killed in WWII. Walter lives in Florida. My grandfather Carl’s first wife before he married Theodora was named Anna. She died and then Carl remarried Theodora. That’s where I come in. Have original wedding cert of Carl and Anna. 
I know one of the Lehman or Frey families is full or half Jewish. Do you know which one? Now, does Lehman have one or two n’s? My Grandma said it was 2.
My Dear Mother who had a wealth of family info. We always talked about family heritage, but that well is gone, she passed last year. I have a sister named Elizabeth Theodora Mampel Deckelman, yes Theodora is here middle name, whom I have talked to tonight and she is of course more interested what happens here. Email for more info Agnes should have it. This is terrific!!

[YvonneR]

A very big Hi to you Kenneth and welcome indeed to Rootschat

I am absolutely sure that Richard will be so excited when he sees your message, I personally am sooooooooo thrilled.

This is the most wonderful news

My very best wishes to you

Agnes

                                         

I hope you don't mind me saying but you might want to remove your email address to  to guard against spammers (just use the modify button on your post). We have a Personal Message system on Rootschat to enable us to exchange addresses.

[kennvido]

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