Mary Ann Byles

[PaulaToo]

I KNOW she wasn't found under a gooseberry bush, or even in the cabbage patch, but can anyone find a christening for Mary Ann Byles.
She enters my family tree with an IGI marriage to Thomas Richard Smith, the Labourer(nightman)
26 DEC 1825 at St Marys, Portsea, Hampshire.

On the 1841 census she is with Thomas and family at Silver St Portsea.
Both Thomas and Mary put their ages as 35, and are 'of this county' on later census returns they put that they are from Portsea.

So it should be easy to find her christening...(I've given up on Thomas Richard Smith, well, you can only push your luck so far.)

Problem, although there are several Byles christened about the right time, including a Mahala and Thirza, both names that Mary Ann used for her children, I can find no trace of Mary Ann herself.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Can anyone find the woman?
Look come on, Mary Ann, give yourself up.  I know you were born, I'm here, so you must have been.

Many thanks,
Paula

[AMBLY]

Hi Paula

I see on 1851, that Mary Ann's  approx  YOB is 1806 - I didn't check the other later ones, but  presume it's abt the same all the way thru.......

On the IGI the births or Christenings you mention : Thirza & Mahala - parents listed as Samuel BYLES and Ann.....I see these:

Thirza 1809
Hannah Billinger 1810
Mahala 1812
Adam 1813
Martha 1814
Martha Bassett 1816
Louisa 1818
William 1822
Valentine 1825

They seem to correspond with a marriage 31 May 1803  of a Samuel BYLES and Ann BILLINGER also a St Mary's Portsea Island, well the first 7 anyway,  and one possibility I wondered about was maybe Mary Ann was born wrong side of the wedding-band and therefore listed as BILLINGER? Though again, btw marriage 1803 and Thirza abt 1809, one would expect at least one child born............

IGI : Baptisms Batch # C062613 - years 1805 - 1812, tThe same batch Thirza, Hannah & Mahala are in.... Searching all B's for anything remotely like BYLES/BILES/BEELS/BEALS/BILLINGER...

And come across:

Mary Ann  BOYLES 
Christened 3 Jun 1805 St Marys, Portsea Island
Parents: Samuel BOYLES and Ann
 

There are NO other births in Hampshire on IGI to this combination of BOYLES parents - which is good! Take out that "O" playing gooseberry    and I rather think we may have found her!

Cheers 
AMBLY

[PaulaToo]

Ambly.....what can I say?
Well I can start by saying thank you, so THANK YOU.
On her daughter, the dreaded Eliza Ann's birth cert it looks like Mother Mary Ann Smith, formerly Bayles.
That was the name I first went with.....no joy. Then on finding the marriage and discovering it was Byles, along with all the other Byles that were about at the time, I was baffled as to where Mary Ann had gone. It's so easy...when you see it there Boyles/Byles/Bayles.
SOMEONE didn't know how to spell the name. Nearly everyone is using Byles but a couple of other characters have their own variations. Magic.
Thank you so much.
Well, that's that line back to Abraham Bassett, baptised 1722, Portsmouth, and his father Abraham and mother Elizabeth, who would probably be just into the 1600s.
Brilliant. I had them all there ready to be grafted onto the tree, but Mary Ann was being difficult.
I feel this is the news I have been waiting for all week.
Yahoooooooooo!

[AMBLY]

Hi Paula

If this is on the right track.....have to say it does look good especially seeing:

1841: Samuel and Ann BYLES  and dau Martha B, with married Hannah & Louisa; and married Thirza next door in 1841 Census,
1851: widowed Ann BYLES  with widowed dau Louisa & dau-InLaw Lettice - and married dau: Martha B next door -

Would you like the details to keep at the ready  Or maybe you've had them a while ready to graft if need be , as you say  

Cheers
AMBLY

[PaulaToo]

Ambly, you're making me dizzy.
I have Mary Ann Boyles/Byles/Bayles covered, now census and all,
but her parents are only names and dates, I have no census returns for them.
Oh yes please, wheel them out.
Thank you so much.

[AMBLY]

Hi Paula 
Trundle, trundle............

1841: Portsea Town., Landport & Southern, Hampshire
Hundred of Portsmouth Borough
REF: HO107/414/3, Folio 9, pg13
ADDRESS: Grigg Street
//
Samuel BYLES 63, Shoe M. - Y
Ann BYLES 59 - Y
Martha BYLES 20 - Y
/
Hannah McLAUKLON 30, Seamans Wife - Y
John McLAUKLON 5 - Y
Martha McLAUKLON 7 - Y
Louisa NORRIS 21, Seamans Wife - Y
Louisa NORRIS 11 mths - Y
//

then next door:
//
Henry PACK 31, Shoe M - Y
Thirza PACK 31 - Y
Henry PACK 8 - Y
Edwin PACK 7 - Y
Jacob PACK 6 - Y
Thirza PACK 5 - Y
Samuel PACK 3 - Y
Sarah PACK 8 months - Y
/
Johnson HARPES Royal Marine - N
Matilda HARPES 22 - N
//


1851: Portsea, Hampshire
REFHO107/ Piece1659- Folio183- Pg34 & 35
ADDRESS; 24 Grigg Street
Head: Ann BYLES 68, WIdow, Needle?  Woman, b Landport Hants
Dau: Louisa NORRIS 33, widow, Needle? Woman, b Portsmouth Hants
G-Dau: Louisa NORRIS 10, b Portsmouth Hants
G-SOn: Henry NORRIS 7, b Portsmouth Hants
Dau: Lettice BYLES 27 ? marr, Seamans Wife, b Pembroke Wales
Lodger: Henry EARNEST? 23?, marr, --------------? , b Portsea Hants
Lodger: Charlotte EARNEST? 20? , marr, --------------? , b Ireland

and Next door

ADDRESS: 25 Grigg STreet
Head: Henry  BALSOM 39?, G. Pennener??, b Portsmouth Hants
Wife: Martha BALSOM 33?, b Portsmouth Hants
Son: Henry BALSOM 5?, b Southsea, Hants
Dau: Martha BALSOM 2 months, b Southsea, Hants
Visitor: George HOSKINGS 30, marr, Groom, b Chichester Sussex
Visitor: Claudina HOSKINGS 25?,  marr, b Milford Hants
Visitor: Edwin ELGAR 18, unm, Painter, b Milford Hants

The 1851 writing is messy and hard to make out in places, and  the
enumerator has made thick-handed check marks thru the ages.

FREEBMD marriages: Portsea Island
Louisa Saunders BYLES & Henry NORRIS  in 1838
Martha Bassett BYLES & Henry BAL_O_ in 1845
Valentine John BYLES & Lettice JONES in 1850

IGI MARRIAGES
Thirza BYLES & Henry PACK  in Alverstoke 1832
Hannah BYLES & John McLAUGHTON in St Marys Portsea 1834
Hannah BYLES or MC LAUGHLIN & John PAGE in St Marys Portsea 1851

These were fun to find - a close-knit family!

Cheers
AMBLY

[PaulaToo]

Ambly, you're a little gold star, you really are.
That is all so interesting and I shall print it off and put it in the 'Eliza Ann Files' No X Files was ever like the Eliza Ann Files, I can tell you.
That woman drove me, and my my friends crazy trying to find her. She married a bloke called Henry Moore and I thought everything was fine. But it wasn't. Henry figued in only a small way in her life and in no way in mine. A series of notches on bedposts followed. We stalked her through the years and finally nailed the culpret who was my Great Grandfather as one Callus William Webb. Then I couldn't find the marriage for her daughter, my Gran Harriet...I did in the end...She finally decided to marry the father of her children when the youngest of those children, my mother, was 7 years old.
So I thought things couldn't get worse and was delighted to find that I could trace the Byles back to Abraham Bassett in 1722. I should have known better. Eliza's mother Mary Ann just wouldn't be found.
Now, you've found her for me, and given me the census returns for the family. Shoe Makers? That just about sums that family up...a load of cobblers
Thanks Ambly, now I'm glad I finally cracked and screamed for help.
You're a good un.
Paula

[AMBLY]

Aw Shucks! Thanks Paula - and you'r very welcome.
What an interesting story - sometimes  the tales of how people finally track down their elusive & colorful forebears are just as facinating and often as funny as the tales of the ones they catch!  I have to say, I had to giggle a little, when you match the word "Culprit" with the name of your Gt Gf  " Callus"!

Wondering out loud only, why Gran didn't marry until the youngest was 7 - was there a first & living wife in the background....

Here's to happy hunting and many more pesky anscestors to keep us lively!

Cheers
AMBLY

[PaulaToo]

Hi Ambly.
I think the dreaded Eliza Ann, whose name has become synonymous for everything you dread happening in genealogy, and callous Callus William Webb deserved each other. They were a right pair.
Yes, it's a  about Grandmother Harriet and her William. If they had gone that long, one wonders why they finally got married.
In 1881 William is at home with his mum Martha in Pembroke, in 1885 he is merrily producing in Basingstoke with Gran Harriet.
In 1881 she is with her mum in Reading.
It doesn't give much time for either of them to find someone and get married.
Family story has it that he hit his mother and was shown the door.
Family story has it, Harriet and William ran away to get married.
Family stories might have a bit of truth in them. Only a bit.
He was a tailor, and the GWR might have brought him to Reading to start a new life.
I can only think they ran away to Basingstoke NOT to get married, and came back with four kids saying, 'See, you couldn't stop us.'
It is only after the dreaded Eliza Ann has died that they did the 'running away to get married' act, and they only went to the next parish.
Can you imagine the vicar if they had gone to their own church....
'But Mrs Mathias, you MUST be married already, I have christened all you children and you are one of the ladies in the Mother's Meeting group.'
I can tell you, Ambley, this is the fun branch of the family. They are always good for a twist, or a laugh, or just to tear your hair out over.
Thanks for taking interest,
Paula