Ship owners - Sunderland & South Shields

[Cherielynn]

Wonderful work on the Harriet Alice Lee Kidd and James Hutton Kidd family, and everything else for that matter.

I have wondered about Enoch Donkerley and if what has been found is correct.

Maybe you posted all this before – but I googled Enoch Donkerley and found a 2008 post referring to an Enoch Donkerley’s estate and “The Coleman Deeds”

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DUR-NBL/2008-12/1230265631

I changed the google a bit and turned up

Tyne and Wear Museum and Archives has a record of an Enoch Donkerley at


http://www.tyneandweararchives.org.uk/DServe2/dserve.exe?dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=NaviTree.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqItem=DX797/2&dsqField=RefNo

that includes info about title deeds and the estate of Enoch Donkerley, South Shields, sailmaker, which names daughter Ann and her husband Evan Thompson, South Shields, Sailmaker,  and daughter Margaret and her husband Peter Muncaster, South Shields, Shipwright.

The above site has 4 more records of an Enoch.

A google of Enoch produced a 2002 post

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Mariners/2002-03/1016501633

which refers to two ships owned by an Enoch Donkerley – one for sale 1786 The "Robert and Ann" and – and half interest for sale 1786 in the "John and Jane".

Maybe you sent me this before. Is this our Ann’s father? Is her mother known? Or anything else of interest.

If there is anything I was asked to share and have forgotten, please let me know.

[Westoe]

Much is known and all of it interesting. Some of it, like these bits, openly available on the internet, but a good deal more of it acquired with the expense of much time, money and labour - over 1,000 hours on the BT's alone.

I've paid for certificates and books and microfiche and photocopies and transcripts and library memberships. I've done dogsbody work through records accessible to me here on other people's behalves so that they would reciprocate for me there.... I've too much invested to just give it away.

Don't explode again, lass, but you need to go back and recheck these sources you are citing.

e.g. the Mariners List posting (which has been in plain Google sight for nine years) *does not* say that Enoch Donkerley had any ownership position in those two ships - merely that the sale was being conducted at his place. The person who posted the query cited the source for the information. You can do as I did - buy a copy of that book.

e.g. in the Tyne and Wear Archives citation, you have misnamed Margaret's husband.

But (smile) I don't want to be entirely discouraging. Yes, you have references there to EDT's parents and maternal grandfather. And there is much more openly available on the internet (including his grandmother's name, his aunts, his uncles and his cousins by dozens). Good hunting.

[Cherielynn]

Thank you very much for your reply. I typed Muncaster as it is written in the Tyne and Wear record. You are right the post does not say who owned the ships, my sincere apologies. I have only recently learned that googling from an actual google page is much more effective than googling from my ISP browser, so I am finding lots of old information.

I too have spent 1,000s of hours, much more than that in money with subscriptions, original records, micro film, microfiche, books, and travel to research in several countries. I have done countless hours of free lookups at the National Archives in Washington, D.C., several states in the union and other countries for family and friends and even strangers. I didn't realize this was in any way a matter of money.

As far as been a lass, that is incorrect. I learned to research at my grandmother's knee, holding onto her skirt hem while walking into dusty county records basements long over 50 years ago.

As far as asking you about Enoch Donkerley, I was really just trying to continue the posts. Once - shame on you. Twice - shame on me.

[Westoe]

The name in the Tyne and Wear Archives is Robert Muncaster, not Peter.

[Cherielynn]

Touche! What used to take me 10 minutes to write accurately, now takes me an hour and is rife with errors.

It may be a light stroke, but it is debilitating.

I will bow out. I should have bowed out before now when I could have done so gracefully.

regards

[Westoe]

John Kidd is enumerated as a lawyer in 1880 US Census. Here are two mentions of possible John Kidds.

1) news article "About People" in newspaper Indianapolis Sentinel 4 September, 1878.

"John Kidd was yesterday admitted to practice in the superior and criminal courts."

2) from Google Books:
Manufacturing and mercantile resources of Indianapolis, Indiana: a ... - Page 539
 1883 - 269 pages - Full view

"This branch of business was founded by Mr. John Kidd, attorney and counsellor at law, in 1877. "

[actually page 166 of 289 if book downloaded]
 
referring to "The World's Collection Bureau" located 87 East Market Street, Indianapolis.

Comments, anyone?

[Westoe]

More anent "the book" in The Mariners List posting (replies #108, #109 of this thread), namely:

Notes on The History of Shipbuilding in South Shields 1746-1946 by Amy C. Flagg
ISBN: 0 906617030

It would be worthwhile for you to get a copy of this for more reasons than those two sales of ships.

'Way back in November, 2008 I was tempted to mention it in response to julianb's reply (#57), but then I didn't, because if he had searched diligently himself, he'd have found the reference. Pages 77 and 78 contain a potted history of the shipbuilding firm Thomas Metcalf and Sons, which was briefly Metcalf & Lee (during which time Harry Lee, the younger, was killed there). It's a one sentence reference to Lee.

Further, as you learn more about EDT, his associates, his business dealings, his background and his ships, you'll recognize a lot of names in that book.  It all helps to provide context for him - actual local history rather than just "begat, begat, begat" pedigree.

[Cherielynn]

I have taken your advice. abebooks had two copies now they have one. if the print is very small and I have to read it with a magnifying glass I will never forgive you Laddie...:-)

Cherie

[Westoe]

if the print is very small and I have to read it with a magnifying glass I will never forgive you Laddie...:-)
Cherie

No fear, lass - it's readable. Take mind of the names "Lockwood Brodrick" and "James Craistor/Craster" - you'll encounter them again.

Possible, but as yet unproven,  vague connection to Wright's, the biscuit people (pp81-83). I've eaten ship's biscuit - there's a bakery in Newfiejohn still makes it - and, yes, it does live up to the old joke about "ship's biscuit made yesterday tastes just as good as ship's biscuit made 120 years ago" - the stuff is virtually indestructible.