Ship owners - Sunderland & South Shields

[Cherielynn]

Westoe: The christening dates added to these folks names and birth dates is wonderful. A little bird has told me we might have more great things to come from this family history tidbit.

I have my fingers crossed this will work

http://www.shieldsgazette.com/cookson-country/river-view-a-lovely-reminder-of-past-1-4222638

this goes to a page from the Shields Gazette, trying to solve a puzzle of pub locations. It has, "...Other sources, it has since transpired – actually ships for sale advertisements of the era – have revealed, I’m told, that the Admiral Rodney was located on Long Row in Shields.
This was in 1785-1786, and the innkeeper was called Enoch Donkerley.
This was a period when the old town of Shields was still, essentially, one street running along the river..."

Being that the estate, in South Shields, of Enoch Donkerley, settled in 1796?, indicated Enoch, the father of Ann Donkerley Thompson, was holding a lot of property, I wonder is this our Enoch Donkerley, grandfather of our Shipowner, who had this pub? The article refers to the Admiral Rodney Pub and the Adam and Eve Pub.

Hope the link works and I hope I have posted appropriately.

[Westoe]

Hello Cherie Lynn,

Erm .... you've had that information for a long time - it is straight out of "History of Shipbuilding in South Shields" by Amy C. Flagg. On my recommendation, you bought a copy of that book a couple of years ago. The writer of the "Cookson Country" column just lifted an idea for a column from someone trying to geographically place that particular "Admiral Rodney" inn.

Cheers,
Westoe

[Cherielynn]

You are right. Cousin Meg and I have discussed about "early onset", besides a 4 inch long scar across the back of my head. I was on the phone with cousin Meg and telling her about that book and that I had to find it and get it open again. Maybe I can retain its information jewels 2nd time around. Meg and I want to go to the pub and have a seat and ask, "set them up, please".

[Westoe]

Hello Cherie Lynn,

It was May 2011 that you got your copy of the book. After you've reread it, will you please also reread post #116 on page 13 of this thread and post #121 on page 14. We were disappointed not to get any response to those.

BTW: Did you ever buy yourself a copy of those probate papers for the estate of Enoch Donkerley? They are chock full of information altho' there is one error that doesn't immediately jump out unless you also have the will in front of you and are comparing closely.

Cheers,
Westoe

[Westoe]

                   Correction of Misinformation Previously Posted by Us

In posts #42 (page 5) and # 45 (page 6) of this thread, I posted that Joseph Logan Thompson went bankrupt and that the firm of Thompson & Lee went bankrupt.

Those are bits of oral history which are now known to be incorrect.

Joseph Logan Thompson was never bankrupt.

The astronomical legal costs of the NEW ZEALAND lawsuit did present a burden and required the liquidation of some assets. All of his bills were paid in full.

The partnership of Thompson and Lee was dissolved and the business was carried on by JLT and at least two of his sons.

Apologies to all for the error.

Cheers,
Westoe

[Westoe]

Also I have participated in DNA for genealogy testing with three companies, two which can compare and match to define family groups. I also tested mother on her death bed. One clear match came through of these lines of family. A man who currently lives in Northern Ireland near the locations of our early Kidd and Hutton families has Kidd in his surnames of ancestors. We were able to identify which Kidd family, Carrie's husband descends from.

Now if we found also a male line Thompson maybe we could learn exactly who Evan Thompson is?

Or a Lee or Havelock or another Kidd - but wait we actually have some of all of those don't we.

Hello Cherie Lynn,

You mention DNA testing/matching frequently here. You and ourselves appear to be the only connexions to this family still active on this thread. I have to tell you that we are quite opposed to it, preferring 'scholarly' research, sifting masses of material for one small clue at a time, absorbing historical detail, getting that satisfying 'frisson' when a new fact turns out to be a 'fit'. It's a hobby that can last a whole lifetime without palling.

To jump instantly via expensive technology from 2014 back to Evan Thompson's birth c. 1760 seems a bit like cheating - akin to saying one has read a certain book, when all one did was read the first and last chapters, leaving out all the 'boring' background and character development.

But more importantly, having DNA testing is surrendering a very intimate part of yourself to "Who knows What other uses!". You have no control over how else these commercial organizations that are doing the analysis/matching services will use your genetic material. And it is a safe bet that they are also giving all the results to the 'psi-curity agencies'. Now there's a frisson that is not thrilling, but chilling - distinctly Orwellian.

So please, will you stop promoting it quite so often, at least on this thread.

Cheers,
Westoe

[Cherielynn]

Hey: I was very interested to read the post about the business and I hope i will get to looking at all the bits and enjoying that information how wonderful you share this thank you!

For the DNA certainly I will drop it but I will like to be able to say my thoughts before I hush. I am sorry if I made anyone uncomfortable. I actually trust the company I use to do what they say, of keeping private and the only markers tested are genealogy and few of them at that.

It is certainly not expensive (male y-dna about 150, autosomal 99) relatively speaking if it answered a long standing family question.

But yes there is good reason for some people to fear the fun. My step mother was thrilled to verify her father, which was done because of her matching a 2nd cousin of the man we believed was her biological dad. In 1857 a man in Lee County, Virginia was visiting the daughter of the farm next door and 150 years later we know.

So yes, enough said about DNA for genealogy, certainly scholarly and scientific diggin for genealogy test and believe me waiting for results is like waiting to find out if it is a boy or a girl - waiting for test results - I have waited for many for my many family branches and also my husband's and with others. Helped a young lady to find her mother's 9born 1927) mother's family who was born out of wedlock and that we proved and they will meet - this lady from New Jersey who identified her biological maternal family and learned of them in her 80s.

Yes, enough said. I am sure that someday I will learn all these things. I am glad to hear you are in such good health that you anticipate many moons of time for research, I on the other hand began to feel a bit pressed after my bout or brush with facing mortality and i do not call DNA cheating and I do not cheat. And moreover you do not know what you are missing... so maybe it is a bit Orwellian, like kissing the Blarney Stone or opening Pandora's Box.

I found the book. All my markers had fallen out in the wayside. i will try to search it again. i am very sorry I didn't dog ear the whole thing.

Still alive and kicking, Cherie Lynn

[Westoe]

Hello Cherie Lynn,

Good that you found the book.

The Metcalfe and Lee information is on page 78, but ACF has given incorrect dates. The partnership ran from at least May 1863, (when they launched the 294 ton brig JOHN CLARKE), to 1 November 1864, (four days after the death of Henry Lee jr. (Harry)). The end date is given in the legal dissolution notice in the London Gazette.

Speaking of Harry, he and one of his mates got a bit rowdy one night in 1863 - ended up being fined damages and court costs for smashing street lights.

Here are a couple of interesting bits about the street lights in Shields.

a) Shields is so far north that it doesn't get completely dark there overnight in the summers, so every year the street lights were taken down and packed away for the summer months, then reinstalled in the fall.

b) all of the street lights that could be visible from the sea or the river had shielding on the side facing the water so that they would not mislead mariners.

Cheers,
Westoe

[Westoe]

Hello Cherie Lynn,
Hello Terry,

Tomorrow or perhaps even later today, I will be sending to you both, direct emails, with attachments. The attachments are legitimate.

The typewritten list of Thompson birthdates, which Cherie Lynn got from New Mexico ( post #203, page 23 of this thread), is genuine. One of the attachments is an image of the original Bible page. The other is of something similar.

Please - acknowledge receipt of the email publicly here on the thread, so that the owner of those documents will be able to see that I have kept my word about sharing.

If there are other related persons on this thread of whom we are not yet aware, please PM me describing your relationship to EDT and I will do the same by you.

Cheers,
Westoe