Ship owners - Sunderland & South Shields

[Westoe]

My grandfather was Charles Havelock Kidd who cames to the UK from New Zealand approx 1917 and moved to Cardiff, Wales in about 1919. My father was born in Cardiff.

Terry

Hello Terry,

I think that CHK, your grandfather, must have arrived in England prior to that because, before joining the Air Force, he appears to have served as a private in the Army Service Corps from 13 August 1914 .... unless the forces have muddled their paperwork and their Charles H. Kidd-s.

Go to The National Archives Discovery Catalogue.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI

Enter "Charles Havelock Kidd" with the quotation marks around it.

That will bring up two entries for him. One of them (AIR /76/275/50088) has been digitized and can be downloaded online for GBP 3.36 by credit card. The other you would have to go to London to the archives to see.

Word of Caution:
When using credit cards online, it is safer to use a disposable MasterCard or Visa rather than a personal card. Disposable gift cards in various denominations are here sold in most grocery stores, pharmacies and gas stations. Probably in UK also.

When you read the one you have just bought, it has a cross reference (MS 4091) to another file which has also been digitized and is also downloadable for a second GBP 3.36 by credit card. Just type that reference number into the search box to bring up the second file.

That second file is WO 372/11/158942 and refers to Charles H. Kidd. That second file is simply an image of six index cards. His is top right, showing him eligible for the 1914 star.

Cheers,
Westoe

[Westoe]

Hello again, Terry,

Further to my last - Ancestry.co.uk has had the 1901 and 1911 Census-es on free this past W/E (Easter) and I looked for your grandfather but didn't find him. So .... it appears that he arrived in the UK between April 1911 and August 1914.

Cheers,
Westoe

[Westoe]

I've noticed that there is a public Kidd family tree on Ancestry.co.uk posted by an 'lgilbert' (?possibly a relation to Ethel Laura "Lola" Gilbert, wife of orchardist James Hutton Kidd?) which appears to have cribbed information from this thread, tho' without attribution. Have you seen it? There's possibly another distant cousin for you. Wouldn't it be interesting if L. Gilbert were to come forward and make himself/herself known to us?

[Cherielynn]

Oh my: I will try this again. I simply do not know how to post images correctly. The credit is ancestry's UK and Ireland Masters and Mates Certificates, 1850 - 1927. From: Master's Certificates. Greenwich, London, UK: National Maritime Museum

PLEASE forgive me if I don't do this correctly

[Cherielynn]

Oh my: I will try this again. I simply do not know how to post images correctly. The credit is ancestry's UK and Ireland Masters and Mates Certificates, 1850 - 1927. From: Master's Certificates. Greenwich, London, UK: National Maritime Museum

Please forgive me if I have done this incorrectly

[Westoe]

Hello CherieLynn,

Erm .... I don't think that this is the right Henry Lee.

What you have posted is Image #131 of 656. Did you use the scroll arrows to look at images #132 and #133 that go with that certificate? You should see some anomalies there. And look at the date - issued 1851. Our Henry had personally given up the 'perils of the sea' by that date in favour of being a shipowner. He had ended his sailing career being a master for his father-in-law EDT, and none of the vessels named in the 'Record of Service' were owned by EDT.

I wrote Terry three months ago that I proposed to send a PM to both of you with new information about Hubert which your Thompson cousins had found, but I have not heard back from him. Indeed he has not been signed in since 8 April. Do you know why?

Cheers,
Westoe

[Cherielynn]

Hi Westoe: Thank you for checking so closely, I guess I was just too excited. But I do think the Charles Havelock Lee must be correct. I will look for the additional pages. I think Terry is just busy, last I heard last year. I have had a tough year, mother, Shirley Ann Nee Kidd passed in April, you will see her on findagrave, (married name Henson). I still beg for a high rez copy of Carrie's photo - please?

[Westoe]

Hello CherieLynn,

Charles Havelock Lee had *two* Master's Certificate numbers. He had to apply for a replacement because his original was "eaten at sea by rats" and the replacement had a new number.

Original was #97,114 issued 8 September 1879.
Replacement was #036,336 issued 14 August, 1901. He must have received it just before he died.

Cheers,
Westoe

[Westoe]

Milicent Kidd returned to New Zealand. She died in Napier (having previously lived in Palmerston) on 16 January 1961 and is believed to have been cremated. (That was her expressed wish.)

Cheers,
Westoe