ROBERT PURVIS - 1841 & 1851 census

[beegee]

Can someone help me to locate Robert Purvis please?

Robert Purvis - born abt 1838/1839 - Morpeth area

He would be abt 3 or 4yrs old in 1841 and 13/14 in 1851
He married in Newcastle in 1867 but just noted as full age.


His father was William Purvis - working as a Cartman in 1867 but I have no further details.  I suspect his wife was Margaret and they may be in Newcastle in 1851.
Any help would be appreciated, sorry I can't be more specific
Thank you
Bee

[nort]

hi Bee
might this be them

HO107/2405/44 page 8
Newcastle upon Tyne St Andrews Parish

2 Vine Lane
William  Purvis  48   stone mason   North Durham Parish of Ryal
Mary        "        42   masons wife   County Durham Parish of Hamsterley
William     "        21   house joiner    Newcastle Parish of St Andrews
Robert     "         14   scholar                 "                      "
George     "        12      "                        "                      "
Margaret Harrison  72  wid  farmers wife  North Riding Yorkshire

for some reason all the birthplaces are down as parishes? also not sure if it read as Ryal or something else.

Steve

[nort]

hi Bee
that previous post was the only Robert i could find in 1851 about that age.Have had a look on the 1841 and found this.

HO107/843/33 page 11
Parish of Hebron
Tritlington

William  Purvis  20  ag.lab
Margaret  "       25
Robert      "         2
May          "        8 months
Ann Anderson   11    F.S.

all born in county.

Steve

[Michael Dixon]

Bee,

Assuming you have access to the detailed census pages, here is the William Purvis/Margaret Anderson down through the censuses.


C1841 ( Steve already got this one)
Ref HO (for Home Office) 107 (indicating the 7th census, but 41 the first census to record people, rather than just count them) Piece 834 Book 33 Folio 3 Page 11.
I read "May" as Mary.
______________________________________

C1851 Ref Piece 2413 Folio 400 Page 11
Family at Blackheddon, near Stamfordham. This time Ann Anderson is recorded as William's sister-in-law.

Robert is 12, born Bothal *

Ancestry has the family indexed as PARRIS
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C1861 Hebburn, Co Durham
Ref 3796-51-1... Robert not with them.

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I noticed that Robert on C1871, (5125-56-8) with wife Isabella (Dodds) and 2 dtrs was a Cartman.

His dad seems to be have been a traditional agricultural labourer, moving around quite a lot.... maybe the annual "hirings" caused him to look farther afield... was it his son Robert's marriage cert that had his occupation as "cartman". Did Robert also declare himself to be a cartman ?

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* Bothal today is a tiny hamlet, between Morpeth and Ashington, with, I think not a single shop/pub etc, but a very old church and castle.

On Steve's point about censuses having parishes for where born, instead of " birthplaces".... many census enumerators, especially the early ones did this....they recorded the "parish of birth" and not the actual "place of birth", mainly because as new communities quickly sprung up, folk were born in new and unknown places, with no "sway", so the "important" parish was recorded.

C1851 has Robert born "Bothal".... i would hazard a guess he was not born in the village of Bothal, but at someplace within the boundaries of the parish of Bothal.

Trivia Angle... my g/f was born in 1875 in fledgling colliery village of New Hartley... 1881 and 1891 censuses have him born at Earsdon. But the enumerators did not mean the "Village" of Earsdon, they meant the territory of the parish of Earsdon !

New Hartley lay in the "township" of Seaton Delaval, which itself lay in the ancient Parish of Earsdon.

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Stop me somebody !! LOL


Michael Dixon
Kenton ( very near where Robert and Isabella were on C1881)

[beegee]

Michael & Steve
Thanks so much for your help.  I do have the census images to hand but I'd trawled unsuccessfully - needles in haystacks comes to mind. Just hoped that someone had indexes that could help me zoom in after many fruitless hours of searching.
You've both helped - I shall hopefully be able to move back on this line now.

Robert was noted as a cartman in 1871 and later census - Ag Lbr.  He gave his birth place as Morpeth - Bothal is quite near so could be on the right track. As a note of interest - most of my husband's ancestors are interred at Bothal.

Thank you both - your help is very much appreciated
Bee

[Michael Dixon]

Bee,

A wee hint when having difficulty in finding folk ( who of course are there, just waiting to be found)...

Consider using permutations of search criteria and clues from earlier or later info...

I found the Purvis /"Parris" family on C1851 by searching WITHOUT a surname... I concentrated on Mark (Robert's brother) as his first name was less common than the first names of other members of the family.

Regularly I search on ..
*first name
*year of birth +/- 5 yrs
*County of Birth.....

Michael Dixon

[beegee]

Thank you Michael - I do use the first name  method on occasion - this time though, I knew nothing of the family other than the name of Robert's father and possible occupation - which I gleaned from a copy marriage cert.

I also try various spellings for surnames  - but I didn't have any luck with this one .......  I have now located the 1841 & 1851 census images for William. How I wish my CD's were name indexed.

Sometimes I find it useful to search the indexes on some of the subscription sites - if I'm lucky I can more or less locate the area my person is in - then find them on my census CD's.  I still haven't located Robert on the 1861 census - probably due to a name variation.

Very grateful for all your help ....... thanks again
Bee

[Michael Dixon]

Bee,

Bothal Parish Records.

Baptism 13 Jan 1839
Robert Purvis son of William, labourer, and Margaret Purvis, of White Field

Bamburgh Parish Records

Baptism 13 Oct 1816
William Purvis, son of William, husbandman and Dorothy Purvis, of Pasture Hill.

Michael Dixon

[Michael Dixon]

White Field or Whitefield lay between the villages of Bothal and Pegswood ( nearer to Bothal)

Michael Dixon