Germany: Records of German Musicians

[myk]

I know this sounds desperate, but I dont have a clue where to look next.

I have just found out from a marriage certificate from 1849 that my ancestor and his Father from Germany were musicians. This is stated on the cert. This and their names are all I have to go on in my search for their place of birth.

Is there any chance that there will be records of exams taken, or listings of bands and the members in them?

Also what does anyone think the likely instuments they played could be?

They were Jewish if that makes a difference.

Thanks

[kaja]

Hi,

It would be easier to help, if you gave us a name.

Some names belong to regions.

Also, 1849 Germany might not be today's Germany.

[myk]

The name was Winsburg (or Winsburgh, Winsberg).

There are quite a lot of Winsbergs living in the Duisburg area now.

No Winsburghs or Winsburgs in Germany atall, according to the phone book.

[Biker]

Hi myk

I too have German ancestors and I agree it's tough finding the birthplace when you have just 'Germany' on the census.  I'm assuming this family were in England on marriage.  A few ideas ...

1. Have you checked EVERY census to see if (hopefully) they give something more specific for birthplace?  If not, it may be worth posting a Lookup Request in the appropriate geographic board ?

2. Have you checked naturalisation records (if indeed they were naturalised) ?  They can be very detailed and interesting.

3. Are there any siblings on the census that may provide further info?

4. The Immigrant Resources board has a lot of pointers and has some special links which relate to Jewish immigrants I believe.

5. The musical connection is difficult as they may have been 'street' musicians (there were loads which immigrated from Italy, Germany etc) or more 'professional' musicians.  Hard to tell without knowing more about their census entries ...

It can be a tough slog but don't give up.  After several years trying to find one of my families' German birthplaces I've just got a small break based on an old family photo.



Good luck
Biker

[myk]

1. Have you checked EVERY census to see if (hopefully) they give something more specific for birthplace?  If not, it may be worth posting a Lookup Request in the appropriate geographic board ?

Yes I have all the census records.

2. Have you checked naturalisation records (if indeed they were naturalised) ?  They can be very detailed and interesting.

Yes, they were not naturalized, at least I couldnt find anything

3. Are there any siblings on the census that may provide further info?

He had no brothers or sisters that I know of (in the UK)

4. The Immigrant Resources board has a lot of pointers and has some special links which relate to Jewish immigrants I believe.

I will look there again, thanks

5. The musical connection is difficult as they may have been 'street' musicians (there were loads which immigrated from Italy, Germany etc) or more 'professional' musicians.  Hard to tell without knowing more about their census entries ...

The entries just say 'musician' (this is on a marriage cert not a census) None of the census records mention musician atall, he just has various jobs like skin dresser, tailor, clothes salesman etc

[Christopher]

I know this sounds desperate, but I dont have a clue where to look next.

I have just found out from a marriage certificate from 1849 that my ancestor and his Father from Germany were musicians. This is stated on the cert. This and their names are all I have to go on in my search for their place of birth.

Is there any chance that there will be records of exams taken, or listings of bands and the members in them?

Also what does anyone think the likely instuments they played could be?

They were Jewish if that makes a difference.

Thanks

Hello myk,

Your ancestors may have been Klezmer musicians. The instruments they played would have included violin, viola, cello, bass, tsimbl and flute. Clarinets may also have been used. Click here to read a short history of Klezmer Music written by Merlin Shepherd.

If I may post a bulletin giving details of your query some of my MySpace musician friends may come up with a few suggestions as some of them have connections with Klezmer bands.

Christopher

[myk]

havent been on here for ages and just read this recent reply.
yes by all means ask your friends Christopher.

thanks
Mike

[aghadowey]

Your German ancestors could easily have been musicians without any formal training.
My great-grandfather (aged 15) and his cousin (around the same age) left their village in Germany in 1885 with other young men to spend the summer playing in a band in New York. The man in charge was to send money home to their families and look after them. They played all summer and just before it was time for all of them to go back to Germany the man vanished leaving them without any funds (and no money had been sent home to Germany). Luckily my great-grandfather had an older brother in New York when he was left in a foreign country without being able to speak English.

[JustinL]

Helllo myk,

According to the database on JewishGen, the name Winsberg / Wincberg appeared in Lithuania and Poland. There wasalos the name Windsberg in Germany (town nor specified).

Music was a important part of Jewish culture. Your ancestors would possibly have played at weddings and other festive occassions. It is just about possible, altough doubtful, given the date (well into the period of Jewish Enlightenment and emancipation) that the ywere classical musicians.

They would not have been klezmer musicians as that was a form of music that developed in shtetl of the Russian Pale.

Could you tell us where and when this marriage took place? And, of course, the full names of the lucky couple and any witnesses too.

Justin