Robert Wm Graham~~~ help

[louis]

My gr-grandfather.
Robert William Graham married Mary Jane Smith,
in 1896, Glendale.
Mary was from Alwinton and Robert from Earsdon.
Robert born 1874 and died 1966.
As I am new to this the problem is how to find the right Robert, Robert Wm, William Robt etc in the census.
Any suggestions would be most welcome and help would be gratefully received, thanks in advance.

[stuizzy]

Hello, and welcome

Since you said that Robert and Mary Jane were married by 1901, I looked them up in the 1901 census. I'm pretty sure this must be the right couple. The info fits in with what you gave

RG13 Piece 4833 Folio 5
8 Sunnyside, Bedlington, Northumberland

Robt. W. Graham Head M 26 Cole miner hewer Northumberland,  Varsdon
Mary J.         "       Wife  M 26                                 "                     Alvinton
Jane             "      Daur        4                                  "                Lowick
Anthony       "      Son          2                                   "             Choppington
James R.      "      Son        6 mos                              "                   "


As for how to find them, I normally put in the minimum information to ancestry.com - in this case, Robert Graham from Northumberland. Then if I get tons of people, I add in more known information i.e. born 1896 += 2.

The next thing I would have tried would have been spouse Mary, but I didn't need to since there weren't many possibilities and this one just popped out.

Hope this helps
Isobel

[irret]

Hi and welcome to Rootschat
Well for 1901 which they should both be on enter name and birth year and place and spouse name Mary Jane that should help. Before that if searching for the right Robert William you can add fathers name which you should have from marriage cert. Not sure if you have his birth cert. already but if so you can add mothers christian name also.

[louis]

Thanks that has helped a lot
The facts match and 3 of the 11 children are right, others born after 1901.
How do I get the same Robert in 1881 census and be sure it is the right one?
Do I need marriage cert. then birth cert. (can these be viewed at records offices?)
Sorry if this seems like a beginners question
Thanks again.

[stuizzy]

Well. The best way to be sure is to get as much information as you can. Getting the actual marriage and/or birth certificates is best, otherwise, for a name that's not particularly uncommon, you're usually guessing.

I don't know whether you can see the actual certificates at the records offices. I'm sure someone else does though. I like having the copies in my hot sticky hand, but it does cost 7 pound a pop

Still, you can often get really useful information from the certificate, especially the marriage ones. Twice now I've broken through brick walls based on names that were witnesses on marriage certificates.

Good luck
Isobel

[Tessy]

Hi Louis

Just looked on ancestry at the 1881 and the only Robert Graham born in Earsdon was born 1872 - (ignore the spelling Grahm - that will just be the census enumerator who can't spell) It may well be him as dates of birth often seem very fluid.
Anyway - the family is:

ann Graham Head - 46 - Widow Born Embleton
Elizabeth Graham Dau Unmarried 16 born Bamboro
Anthony Graham son 14 born Earsdon
Robert Graham son 9 born Earsdon
Henry Prosser Lodger 32 born Newton Hereford

Tessy

[Michael Dixon]

Isobel wonders "whether you can see the actual certificates at the records office"

a) I think Isobel means Register Office. One type of "records office" is a County Record Office, which do not have the definite records of BMDs from 1837.

Some CROs ( e.g. Northumberland) have the GRO Indexes of BMDs, which only contain names, the appropriate District Register Office, and the quarter and year of the registration.

b) The Register Offices do not have "actual certificates". They have the book/register that holds the original and unique registration of the BMD, entered by the registrar, and signed by the "informants" in birth and death registration, and by the spouses and witnesses in marriages.

c) In my experience, we members of the public do not get anywhere  near to these original registers... they are so precious !

d) A "certificate" does not exist until until we buy a
copy of the entry from the register.
This is in fact a copy...
"Certified to be a true copy of an entry in a register in my custody"  or ( from GRO HG)
"Certified to be a true copy of an entry in the certified copy of a register in the Registration District of xxxx"

So GRO are saying your certificate is a true copy of their true copy of the original entry in the original register.

f) To reduce the dangers of buying the certificate of the "wrong" registration, some Register Offices cooperate with requests to buy certificate, e.g. "as long as maiden name of mother of new-born child is O'Melia"

MICK the pedanTICK

[Michael Dixon]

From Michael in a positive mood.


Isobel found them on C1901 ( 4833-5-pages 2 & 3)at 8 Sunnyside, Bedlington ( this lay between the extreme "west end" of Bedlington and Netherton Colliery)

A look along the street to number 3 Sunnyside (4833-5-1) shows a Thomas H Graham, 33 born Earsdon, with wife Isabella born Lowick.


Both these Graham couples have a son (aged 2 yrs) called Anthony.

The English Naming Pattern, a convention that laid down rules for couples to name their children, was followed by many folk, although it was dying out by 1900s.

The first rule was that couples would call their first son after after the child's father's father. *

So it looked possible  that Robert and Thomas were brothers and their father was Anthony Graham.

So going backwards to C1891, we find 16 yr old Robert and 23 yr old Thomas, both born Earsdon, living in Lowick, Bowsden Moor, (4270-116-9)
with siblings and parents Anthony and Ann Graham.

On C1881, in Alnwick, (5123-97-4) Robert W is 6 and Thomas H is 13, again with siblings and parents Antony and Ann.

On C1871 ( 5129-33-12) in Bates Cottages**, Holywell, Earsdon, Robert is not yet born, but Thomas is 3 yrs, with Anthony and Ann.

As to the registration of the birth of Robert William, there are a few candidates in the 1873-76 era, two of them Robert William, others just Robert.

Robert William Graham reg June Quarter 1875 @ Hexham DRO.   

But the family never seemed to have lived in Hexham area.

Dec/74 Morpeth and Dec/75 Newcastle for plain Robert Graham.  But again the family were not evident in areas covered by Morpeth or Newcastle DROs.

Leaving what I think is the best candidate for your Robert William Graham.......

Birth Reg, Sept qtr 1874, Tynemouth DRO.

The BMDs happening in Earsdon ( the village and the area covered by the Parish of Earsdon) were recorded within the Tynemouth DRO .

So if Robert William Graham was born in Holywell (see C1871) then his birth registration would have been made within Tynemouth RO ( but because it covered a wide area, there were eight sub-district offices, to save folk's shoe leather, including one in Earsdon Village.

Some Census Enumerators had a habit of recording "Parish of Birth", rather than "Place of Birth" ( My g/f was born in New Hartley Colliery village, but enumerators recorded his birth as at Earsdon.

* The second rule of the English naming Pattern was that a couple's second son should be named after his mother's mother. Rule 6 was that a couple's first dtr should get the name of her mother's mother


**Bates Cottages.... although this sounds like just a street or cluster of cottages, it was a small community in it's own right within Holywell ( Holywell was one of the eight "townships of the "ancient" parish of Earsdon)

Michael Dixon

[louis]

 hi michael in a positive mood

Thanks for the infomation will look at it again later, when head is ok   its not making any sense at the moment back to the drawing board i think