Cory's from Deal

[AJ100]

Dear Jeff
Apologies for  my late reply - snowed under with requests to the point I can't remember who is looking for which family. That fills you with confidence, doesn't it?

In answer to you last question, I have tracked down the children of Robert Mummery BAILEY and Catherine Susannah Elizabeth.

  7/12/1855  Robert George  (born 30/11/1852)       Chapel Street
  7/12/1855  Isaac John                                             Chapel Street
18/3/1857  William Henry                                           Chapel Lane
10/8/1859  Thomas James                                         Chapel Street
  2/12/1859  William James                                        Chapel Street
These last were baptised after Robert had died and obviously born much earlier
14/9/1871  Caroline Eliza  (born c1862)                     Middle Street
14/9/1871  Harry                                                        Middle Street
14/9/1871  Charles                                                    Middle Street

Fairly conclusive evidence that Robert & Catherine had 2 sons called William and who, by your Census account, lived to adulthood. Never come across it before but nothing surprises me in this line. One lives and learns.

William Henry & Caroline Elizabeth's children were: (I can't remember if I gave them to you, but here they are in case)

  3/7/1881  Williy Henry                                             26, Middle Street
24/5/1882  Mary Ann Sutton                                     26, Middle Street
  2/4/1884  Walace James                                         Custom House Lane
11/2/1885  George Robert                                        Custom House Lane           
27/10/1886  George Henry                                        Custom House Lane
15/10/1891  Robert Isaac                                      11, Market Street
  4/12/1893  Harry                                                  11, Market Street

Am unable to find tthe birth of Robert Mummery BAILEY - have found Robert Long BAILEY but that's not the same.
Hope this helps

AJ

[Jeff Holzgrefe]

Dear AJ,

My apologies for being so tardy in thanking you for your last post which certainly settled, in my own mind at least, the parentage of William Henry BAILEY.  I've been out of town on business.

I'm in the home stretch now.  I have done as much research as I think I'm going to on this family.  Only a couple of loose ends to tie up.  Any help you can give me will once again be hugely appreciated.

Loose end number 1:

I'm trying to find the parents of Elizabeth Ann MAY, the wife of Thomas William CORY (1832-1914).  Family historians give her three or four different sets of parents, but having checked as many sources as I can, I can't find proof one way or another.  Here's what I do know:

16 Nov 2011                   Family Group Sheet
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Wife: Elizabeth Ann May   #5796  died at age: 59
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Born: abt 1835             in Ramsgate, Kent, England  1,2
          Died: 1894                 in Deal, Kent, England  3
      Baptized: 22 Feb 1835          in Margate, Kent, England  4
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       Husband: Thomas William Cory    #5795  died at age: 82
       Married: 19 Oct 1857          in     her age: 22  his age: 25 5
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Born: 1832                 in Deal, Kent, England  6
      Baptized: 25 May 1832          in Deal, Kent, England  7
          Died: 3 Mar 1914           in Deal, Kent, England 
    Occupation:                      Boatman, Mariner  8,9
        Father: Richard Cory #5804
        Mother: Ann Clayson Langley #5805

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     F Child 1: Mary Ann Norris Cory #5799 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     F Child 2: Sarah Sackett Cory #5801 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     M Child 3: Thomas Edward Cory #5847 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     M Child 4: Richard William Cory #5800  died at age: 74
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     M Child 5: Edward John Cory #5797 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     M Child 6: William Henry Worthington Cory #5846  died at age: 83
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     M Child 7: Maurice Henry Cory #5497 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     F Child 8: Harriet Annie Cory #5798 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     M Child 9: Thomas Edwin Cory #5802  died at age: 1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) The Clayson Family Tree, (http://www.claysontree.com/AnnLangley.htm),
Accessed 5 Nov 2011.
(2) British Census 1871, Parish of Deal, Kent, England.
(3) England & Wales, Death Index, 1837-1915.
(4) Register of Baptisms, Marriages and Deaths, St. John the Baptist, Thanet, Margate, Kent,
England.
(5) Birth, Mariage & Death Certificates -- Kent -- 1837 to Present, Name:    CORY, Thomas , W ,
Year of Marriage:    1857
Entry Number:    79
Register:    D/14/1
Location:    Kent County Council.
(6) British Census 1841, Parish of Deal, County of Kent, England.
(8)RG11/ 998/ 37 p  35
(9) British Census 1911, Parish Deal, County of Kent.

Long story short, the 1871 Census gives Elizabeth Ann MAY's birthplace as Ramsgate and her birthdate around 1835.  An Elizabeth Ann May was also baptised at St. John the Baptist, Thanet, Margate on 22 Feb 1835.  And the Kent Birth, Marriage and Death certificates have her marrying Thomas William Cory on 19 Oct 1857.  If she were married in Deal there might be some information about her parents in the parish records.  If you have easy access to these records, I would be massively grateful if you could look her marriage up.

With best wishes,

Jeff Holzgrefe

[Jeff Holzgrefe]

Dear AJ,

The second loose end is as follows:

I'm trying to find the parents of Elizabeth, wife of Edward HARRIS (b. 1837) and mother of Alice Elizabeth HARRIS (1872-1963).  I have neither found a marriage for her nor any mention of her maiden name in any of the sources I've checked.  Again, here's what I know:

16 Nov 2011                   Family Group Sheet
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Wife: Elizabeth   #5850 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Born: abt 1848             in Durham, England  1
        Father:
        Mother:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       Husband: Edward Harris    #5849 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Born: 1837                 in Smeeth, Kent, England  1,2
      Baptized: 22 Oct 1837          in Brabourne, Kent, England  3
        Father: James Harris #6185
        Mother: Amelia Bailey #6011
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     F Child 1: Alice Elizabeth Harris #5498 
      Baptized: 26 Dec 1872          in Folkestone, Kent, England  4,5,1
          Died: 1963                 in Thanet, Kent, England  6
        Spouse: Maurice Henry Cory  #5497  d. 1944 
       Married: abt 1891             in   7
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     F Child 2: Sarah Jane Harris #5851 
          Born: 1876                 in Dover, Kent, England  8
      Baptized: 26 March 1876        in Great Mongeham, Kent, England  9
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     F Child 3: Rose Harris #5852 
          Born: 1881                 in Folkestone, Kent, England  1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) British Census 1881, Parish Folkestone, County of Kent,
RG11/  1008/ 59 p  52
(2) British Census 1841, Parish of Smeeth, County of Kent, England, Name:
   Edward Harris
Age:    3
Estimated Birth Year:    abt 1838
Gender:    Male
Where born:    Kent, England
Civil parish:    Smeeth
Hundred:    Bircholt
County/Island:    Kent
Registration district:    East Ashford
Sub-registration district:    Brabourne
(4) British Census 1891, Parish Deal, County of Kent, Class: RG12; Piece: 738;
Folio 143; Page 39;
(5) England Birth and Christenings -- 1538-1975, (Family Search), Name:    Alice
Elizabeth Harris
Baptism/Christening Date:    26 Dec 1872
Baptism/Christening Place:    Folkestone, Kent, England
Father's Name:    Edward Harris
Mother's Name:    Elizabeth Harris
(6) England & Wales, Death Index, 1837-1915.
(7) British Census 1911, Parish Deal, County of Kent.
( British Census 1881, Parish Folkestone, County of Kent, Class:  RG11;
Piece:  1008; Folio:  59; Page:  52
(9) England Birth and Christenings -- 1538-1975, (Family Search), Name:    Sarah
Jane Harris
Baptism/Christening Date:    26 Mar 1876
Baptism/Christening Place:    Great Mongeham, Kent, England
Father's Name:    Edward Harris
Mother's Name:    Elizabeth Harris

Any help you can give me in solving this final, little mystery would be tremendously kind of you and enormously appreciated by me.

With thanks and best wishes,

Jeff Holzgrefe

[AJ100]

Dear Jeff
Thanks for the very interesting tree and details of your forebears. Do you have the exact dates of Thomas & Elizabeth Cory's children? I  have them if not.

Nothing at all for Elizabeth Harris or her parents. She does not appear in St Thomas (RC) register, St Leonard's or St George's. Neither is she at St Mary's Walmer or St Nicholas Sholden (adjoining parishes).

Something for Thomas Cory.

St Andrew's: 19 Oct 1857 Thomas William CORY, 25, Mariner of Alfred Square son of Richard CORY, Gardener
married Elizabeth Ann MAY. No details for Elizabeth
Witnesses were T.L.CORY and George LOWNDS

The following is supposition.
If Elizabeth was baptised in Deal the only person to fit the bill is
16 Jan 1835 Elizabeth Ann MAY illegitimate daughter of Sara MAY of Alfred Square.
Possible patents of Sara:
  2 June 1815 William MAY married Margaret PETT at St Mary's Church, Walmer.
Witnesses were: Elizabeth Kerwin & ohn Norris.
He was a labourer initially, becoming a Waterman then a Waterman by 1818 living in Walmer Road, now the Strand.
3/12/1815 (born 12/11/1815)  Mary Ann MAY
11/1/1818 (27/10/1818)  Elizabeth MAY
24/10/1819 (28/9/1819)  Sarah MAY
2/12/1821  (5/11/1821)  James MAY

A William MAY was washed up on the beach drowned on 5th Nov 1822 and is buried in St Mary's Churchyard

Possible parents for William:
James & Sarah MAY

1788 Edward MAY
1789  SArah MAY
1791  James MAY
1794  William MAY

There are no other possibles in the Deal registers for the above parents, It is, of course, possible that people moved in from out of town having been baptisd/married somewhere else in which case I wouldn't know about it.

I do hop this is some help

Regards

AJ

[Jeff Holzgrefe]

Dear AJ,

Thanks for your heroic efforts in researching these family lines.  Unfortunately, I fear that I've sent you on a fool's errand.  There are just too many Elizabeth Ann MAYs born about 1835 floating around east Kent to conclusively establish her parentage.   Thank you so much for trying.  I would be most grateful though if you would be so kind as to forward the details of Thomas William CORY and Elizabeth Ann MAY's children.  That will do it for me.

Needless to say, if I can help you research something you only have to say the word.

All the very best,

Jeff Holzgrefe 

[AJ100]

Dear Jeff

Sorry the information was of no use but here are the children of Thomas and Elizabeth Cory.

Baptised at St Andrew's Church, Deal. Thamos was a Mariner and various addresses are listed beside the baptisms.

  1/12/1858  Mary Ann Norris CORY                     Peter Street
  1/12/1861  Sarah Jackett CORY                         Bridge Row
  3/12/1862  Thomas Edward CORY                    Bridge Row
31/1/1864    Richard William CORY                      Lower Street
  8/2/1867    Edward John CORY                    62, Lower Street         
15/1/1869  William Henry Worthington CORY   7, Bulwark Road
  5/3/1871  Morris Henry CORY                         7, Bulwark Row
10/9/1873  Harriet Annie CORY                        7, Bulwark Row
17/8/1876  Thomas CORY                              78, Lower Street

Thank you for your kind offer of research on my behalf. I hope the above is of us to you

Kind Regards

AJ

[Jezb]

Dear Jeff
Thanks for the very interesting tree and details of your forebears. Do you have the exact dates of Thomas & Elizabeth Cory's children? I  have them if not.

Nothing at all for Elizabeth Harris or her parents. She does not appear in St Thomas (RC) register, St Leonard's or St George's. Neither is she at St Mary's Walmer or St Nicholas Sholden (adjoining parishes).

Something for Thomas Cory.

St Andrew's: 19 Oct 1857 Thomas William CORY, 25, Mariner of Alfred Square son of Richard CORY, Gardener
married Elizabeth Ann MAY. No details for Elizabeth
Witnesses were T.L.CORY and George LOWNDS

The following is supposition.
If Elizabeth was baptised in Deal the only person to fit the bill is
16 Jan 1835 Elizabeth Ann MAY illegitimate daughter of Sara MAY of Alfred Square.
Possible patents of Sara:
  2 June 1815 William MAY married Margaret PETT at St Mary's Church, Walmer.
Witnesses were: Elizabeth Kerwin & ohn Norris.
He was a labourer initially, becoming a Waterman then a Waterman by 1818 living in Walmer Road, now the Strand.
3/12/1815 (born 12/11/1815)  Mary Ann MAY
11/1/1818 (27/10/1818)  Elizabeth MAY
24/10/1819 (28/9/1819)  Sarah MAY
2/12/1821  (5/11/1821)  James MAY

A William MAY was washed up on the beach drowned on 5th Nov 1822 and is buried in St Mary's Churchyard

Possible parents for William:
James & Sarah MAY

1788 Edward MAY
1789  SArah MAY
1791  James MAY
1794  William MAY

There are no other possibles in the Deal registers for the above parents, It is, of course, possible that people moved in from out of town having been baptisd/married somewhere else in which case I wouldn't know about it.

I do hop this is some help

Regards

AJ

The George Lownds could be my great great uncle. i am re-searching the Lownds family in Deal any further information would be wonderful. My Great Great Great grandfather was John Lownds married to Sarah Ramell he was a tailor and lived in Lower Street Deal. 

[AJ100]

Hello Jezb

Hope this helps with your research:

John was a Tailor at first living in Duke Street, then briefly to Beach Street in 1815 after which he moved to Lower Street (now the High Street) by 1817.

Children of John LOWNDS and Sarah, nee RAMELL, all baptised at St George's Church, Deal. Dates are of baptism, not birth.

  9/7/1805  Mary Ann LOWNDS                                                                         5/3/1817  SArah Hawkins LOWNDS
24/2/1807  Susanna Redman LOWNDS                                                            6/6/1819  Richard LOWNDS
25/1/1809  William Thomas LOWNDS                                                               4/3/1821  Robert Ramell LOWNDS
15/2/1811  John Marlow LOWNDS     died 6/9/1819 Buried in St George's      5/9/1823  John James LOWNDS
20/1/1813  Elizabeth Whitehead LOWNDS                                                      7/6/1826  George LOWNDS
24/3/1815  Nathaniel LOWNDS                                                                        4/6/1828  Matthew LOWNDS

Marriages at St Leonard's Church, Deal:

29/4/1833  Elizabeth Whitehead LOWNDS to Thomas Wyborn DENNE
  4/4/1836  Susanna Redman LOWNDS to Daniel DOUGLAS
26/4/1847  Robert Ramell LOWNDS, Tailor of Lower St, s/o John, Tailor, to Sarah Mary CASTLE, d/o George, Boatbuilder
  3/11/1860 Robert Ramell LOWNDS, Widower, Tailor of Robert St, s/o John, to Hannah Chandler ARMSTRONG, Widow, d/o James KEMP
                                                                                                                                                                                                   Farmer
11/10/1848  Sarah Hawkins LOWNDS of Lower Street, d/o John, Tailor to Thomas MATTHEWS, Carpenter, s/o Thomas, Carpenter

Burials:

5/1/1836  John LOWNDS                Lower Street    84
29/3/1861  Sarah LOWNDS                King Street   78
30/9/1845  Wiliam Henry LOWNDS   Lower Street   6
19/6/1849  John LOWNDS               Queen Street  69
  6/1/1856  SArah Jane LOWNDS     Lower Street    1 month
  6/1/1856  Wiliam Robert LOWNDS  Lower Street   1 month

I have the children of Robert & Sarah and of George & Mary should you need them.  I hope this has been of some help

Regards

AJ

[Jezb]

AJ. Thanks very much for the info. Its has confirmed some of my findings and also added a lot more detail.  Do you have any information about Sarah Ramell parents / family.

I have a real interest in the Lownds side of my family as my middle name is Lownds. My great great grandfather was Richard Lownds born 1819 as confirmed by your findings. He moved to London from Deal around the time of his marriage in 1840 to a Lucy Clements from Lambeth. The strange thing is he changed his name to Williams, however, all his children were christened as Lownds and he and his wife are also recorded as Lownds on the childrens birth certificates. But, all the census records from 1841 onwards show the family as Williams and the children married as Williams. 

I cant find any reason or record why this change happend. Any clues??

Thank you so much for your help so far.