How reliable are certificates do you think?

[loo]

I agree with Bill, for what it's worth.

[frenchdressing]

Thanks for your views Bill and Loo but what can I do to find out if it's really my family. Is their a way of finding out if the name was changed officially?
Would it be usual for a man to marry a woman with a 2 month old baby that wasn't his?
Robert was the only child of the marriage which was unusual in those days I think.
Nice to see I'm not the only one up early Loo.
Regards
Pat

[Bill749]

Hi Pat

There could be a number of explanations - you don't say how old the parties were at the time of the marriage, or if either had been married before.  Also, have you considered the possibility that the husband was unable to father children, or that the marriage was one of "convenience" to give the child a father - perhaps the real father had died or was unable to marry the mother - the possibilities are endless.

Men often did take on a woman with one or more young children - particularly if they were getting on in years, or if they had young children of their own and had recently lost a wife.

Sorry to be so negative, but I think you are going to have your work cut out to find the truth.  Is there a will that might give further clues?  Quite often they were very specific about the exact relationships between various parties!

Regards, Bill

[frenchdressing]

Hi Bill,
Joseph was 19 and Mary 18 when they married so they wouldn't have been married before. I've not looked for a will (where do I look?). Joseph died in Winwick Asylum in 1904 when he was 59. You're probably right about them not being able to have more children as they took in one of Mary's nieces whose mother wasn't married at the time of birth.
I'm still surprised that they got married only 2 months after the birth if it wasn't Joseph's child but then again, if it was his child why didn't he go to register it with Mary?
Regards,
Pat

[Bill749]

Hi Pat

If they were that young, it is quite possible that he was the father, although you might never know!  Maybe she had a bad time during the birth and couldn't have any more children.  It was not at all uncommon forthe birth of the first child to come before the marriage, as the man didn't want to saddle himself with a barren wife who could not give him children to look after him in his old age!  You will quite often find the baptism was delayed until after the marriage, though; the closest I have come across in the registers was a baptism that took place directly after the marriage - on the same day!

Do you know when he went into the asylum?  The reason I ask is that, if he was in there some time, he probably would not have been capable of making a will.  Alternatively, it might be that he was admitted to the infirmary attached to the asylum shortly before he died because it was the nearest local hospital.

Regards, Bill

[suey]

I have a lady who had an illegitimate child in 1828, I was lucky to find a bastardy order naming a John Newington as the father, not long after the date on the order said woman married another man, so no you cannot be sure.

Have you a baptism for the child, I also have illegitimate children in my tree baptised with their mothers surname but the father is named in the records.
Suey

[loo]

It's also possible that nobody knows for sure who the father was!  This happens more often than you may think.  She may have told him it was his child (or she may not have).  When you marry AFTER a child is born, you are definitely marrying the woman, and the origin of the child may be a secondary consideration.  Maybe he just liked kids!
To be certain, I think you'd have to do DNA, but Bill has a good idea too, about the will.  A will will usually specify the nature of the relationship, e.g. "...to my adopted son / stepson / son, John..."  If it just says "son", you still won't know for sure, I would think.
It's my understanding that a formal change of name was not required by law at that time. 
Here is a link that will help you find a will:
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/1183.htm  You can go to the office in London and look them up yourself, or pay them to do it for you.

[frenchdressing]

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. I'll certainly try and look up a baptism. I'm going to be really busy next time I come to England.
Bill, my Joseph was n't on the 1901 census with his wife but there's a G Clementson in Rainhill Asylum in 1901. He's got the same age and occupation as Joseph so I tink it's probably him. I know that Winwick didn't open until 1902 so maybe he was transfered then. I'll have to go to the records office in Liverpool to be sure. On Joseph's death cert the cause of death is "general paralysis 2 years" so he couldn't have made a will, could he?
Loo, I like the idea of him "marrying the woman" (sentimental) and thanks for the site on wills, I need to look it up for other ancestors.
I understood that you should never take things for granted in genealogy, back it up with certificates but now I realize you can't always believe certificates.
Best regards,
Patricia