Do you need help in Athy, Co Kildare

[Celtic Damsel]

Hi Gig, no Newbridge is not that far from me really about 35 kilometres away but I quite often go there shopping and I will be there later in the week, in the meantime I will make some enquiries about the graveyards in the area, were your people RC ? and what address do you have for your him on his birth cert ? as Newbridge is quite a big town and there is more than one graveyard as far as I am aware so it would be helpful to have an "end of the the town" as such to work with, yes my grandmother were are told was born in Derby her name was Mary Kavanagh,  born circa 1899 , her parents were John Kavanagh,born circa 1879 and esther Kavanagh( nee Smith) born circa 1880, her siblings were christine kavanagh
unknown birthplace
 and Gerard Kavanagh.unknown birthplace. We dont know if her parents were born in UK or went over to uk before she was born, or if they were born here, we only know they returned and all died here, and of course death certs give so little information but they are all we have so far so any help finding them would be gratefully accepted, regards Damsel

[gig]

  hello celtic damsel thank you for your reply im afraid i dont have any addresses or anything to narrow it down
the birth cert is not the origianal but one my granddad  sent for in the 80s although we did discover he was celabrating his birthday
a day early ,his reply ,oh im not as old as i thought i was 
the family were rc ,my mum seems to think they later moved to  kimmage or a place called stanaway ,the latter might be a street
but i dont know were theses places are  thank you for the offer to look up but please dont go out of your way especially if the weathers the same there as it is here
on your relatives ,wow thats a tough one i carnt find them on the census returns  do you know were in derby they were
i found a mary kavanagh born jan q 1899 in west derby 8b 405
but thats in lancaster
i did however find  a mary kavanagh born march 1899 in liverpool
8b 24 then in  june 1899  a john kavanagh  married a esther
smyth ,dont know if that is a type error or correct spelling
in liverpool 8b 1899  i only mention these as liverpool is the port across from ireland so they could have been on the way over here or there just a thought but im sure youve already seen these in your research , this really is a puzzerler if theses any other info you have on them id be glad to help ,may i ask were your hill relatives came from
thank you for your time best regards gig

[HarryC]

Hi Celtic Damsel,

My Athy ancestor is a bit of a puzzle. His name was Matthew Dwen, or Duane (pronounced Dwen), or Wren, or Owen, or Swann, or O'Rinn, or . Currently, I'm leaning toward Dwen. The closest thing I have to a contemporary record is a death notice giving his name as Owen, but in at least one other instance I can show that Owen is a modern transcription error for Dwen. His daughter's tombstone reads Dwen, but Swann is on her marriage license.

I don't know his birth date. He was married in 1826 in Baltimore, Maryland, and died in 1846 in Galena, Illinois. He was probably Catholic. He married a Catholic girl and his descendents are Catholic.

Frankly, I'm at something of an impasse with him and any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

[Celtic Damsel]

Hi Harry, looking at the details you do have for your ancestor I can only suggest that "Owen" would have been a more common name here though of Welsh decent as my own Grandfather was an "Owens" who came here from Wales to Ireland at the turn of the century,
"Swann" is also a name I have heard but mostly with the more common spelling of "Swan",  but  Dwen is not a name I have ever heard used here and there are no listings for the name in the telephone book ,
There are a few "Duanes" and a couple of "Swanns" but none in Athy at the present time , there are a lot of "Swans" though but also none in Athy listed
If you have a death record you know where he died so his death cert will give you an age at death and therfore an approximate date of birth, also worth checking the other thing that you know, his marraige , a lot of times they just put age as "full" but you might get lucky.
As you know where he was at given times in his life it would be worth while also finding him on the census there, perhaps you have done this already as you hav'nt said how you know he was from Athy ?

Hope this helps you to pinpoint an approx date of birth as otherwise I would'nt know where to start without a name and at least an approx year sorry, good luck with the search and if you get those let me know and I will be glad to help here in Athy, regards Damsel

[Celtic Damsel]

Hi again Gig I have found that the local, and biggest cememtry in newbridge does not actually date back to the period you are searching however Newbridge has apparently a brilliant Family reseach section at their library their contacts details are at http://kildare.ie/heritage/genealogy/, have a look at this at they seem to be very helpful also with searches ,
I hope this hepls you find our greatgrandparents burial place if they do let me know straight away and i will go get you some photos if you want, thanks for the information on my Kavanaghs I hav'nt come across those ones before and will follow up to see if I can make a connection with them, regards Damsel

[Celtic Damsel]

PS Gig what a coincidence also that you have family hailing from Kimmage which is a Dublin South suburb, my own Dad was from Kimmage and I still have quite a lot of family there, the Stanaway you mention is "Stanaway road" a road in Kimmage and the area is Dublin 12, also the only cemetry in the area and a very old one is at a place not far from Kimmage called Harolds cross its called Mount Jerome , their office contact details 01)4971269 and they hold all the burial records for the cemetry at the office, I would say this is where you are going to find some of the people  you are seeking, here a link to a bit of info on the cemetry http://www.irish-architecture.com/buildings_ireland/dublin/harolds_cross/mountjerome.html  hope this all helps you as well keep me posted on the progress, regards Damsel

[HarryC]

The big problem is that I have found virtually no primary records. The Athy birth comes from two biographical sketches of his grandson published in 1889 and 1904. The death notice appeared in a newspaper and is little more than a notice of probate. I'm sure it's him because of the date of the death and the name of one of the executors. Good county records start a few years later.

The US census before 1850 is difficult to use. Only heads of households are listed. Ages are given in ranges. Other household members are not listed by name but by age range, sex, and whether free or slave. That, plus I haven't pinned down his location in 1830 and 1840. Given the problems with his name, and the many varied ways it was recorded, I haven't successfully found him.

The two instances of "Owen" that I know of are the death notice and an online transcription of his daughter's gravestone. The death notice is online. I haven't seen the original yet. The modern gravestone transcription is inaccurate. The grave reads "Dwen." It's quite clear. I have photos.

Another example of a modern transcription error is in the 1850 census data for his widow. She's a housekeeper for a priest (thus, would have been entirely missed in the 1840 and earlier census). Her name is given as "Dwin." Ancestry.com has it as "Devin."

"Wren" comes from his daughter's obituary in 1910. "Swann," as I said, from her county marriage record (the groom, Donald Beaton, was listed as "Daniel Beton"--and I'm as sure as I can every be that it is the right record). I forget the source for "O'Rinn" right now.

The marriage record is a possibility. I haven't found it yet. I know where and the year (at least as they were given 75 years after the fact and long after both bride and groom died).   

Anyway, thought I'd ask. I appreciate your thoughts on this. He's a puzzle and I may never find out more about him.   

[Celtic Damsel]

well harry I thought my own family was hard to pindown !! excuse me if I'm wrong as I'm not great on timeline with US records but if he entered US through New York was Ellis island being used then for emigration ? if so maybe you would be able to look at the records for there ?all I can say is if you manage to pin his birth date down to even with a few years eventually let me know as all the forms of his name can be checked then, good luck hope you get a breakthrough soon, regards Damsel

[HarryC]

Some of my ancestors are pretty easy--some difficult. Matthew Duane (or whatever) isn't the hardest. I don't even have a County in Ireland for my Connors ancestors. As near as I can tell, my great grandfather appeared on the face of the earth in 1885 in Topeka, Kansas, at the age of 15 when he started working for the Santa Fe. He said he was born in San Francisco to Henry and Margaret Connors. But just try finding any records of this family. The great San Francisco earthquake and fire of 1906 hasn't helped any.

Ellis Island was much later--well after the main Irish immigration. Castle Garden is the earlier New York immigration center and I have found other Irish immigrant ancestors in their on-line database. But, my guess is that my Athy ancestor immigrated through Baltimore. He married a Baltimore girl in Baltimore. It would help a lot in locating his immigration record if I had a good idea how his name was spelled and the approximate year of immigration.

Oh well, I suppose a trip to Baltimore is in order. :-)