St-Joseph RC Cemetery, Moston

[coco-cool]

WOW and WOW   Jackpot!!
you found them!! I am so thrilled!! and it sheds light  on the other cenci you found!!  Thank you so very much... I'll come back to you soon!!  I have to go...
regards and million thanks!! 

jacques

[heywood]

Hi Jacques,
well I am fairly excited by all this and think I may have found as much as possible from censuses - 1861 - 1891. You have a task ahead of you because of the various spellings regarding baptisms etc and the relationships - so I wish you lots of luck.

1861: RG9; Piece: 2945; Folio: 62; Page: 46
Cellar under 58 Major Street Manchester
William Mullowney  head 35 yrs   shoemaker  Ireland
Mary  28 yrs   Ireland
John  13 yrs   errand boy  Manchester
Mary E  9 yrs    scholar  Manchester
William  2 yrs  scholar

Interestingly the entry for Mary looks as though it first was 'Henry' and then crossed out.
best wishes
Kath

[coco-cool]

Hello Kath!
I don't have the words to tell you how grateful I am for your research and dedication! Now I'll be able to rebuild my grandmother's family on her mother's side, the Mullowney-Malone!! Is Ettie Howard (1891 census) a short form of Elizabeth or is Ettie a common name? Is it always written like this? I'll try to find out if James Howard and Mary Ellen Malone had a second girl, Ettie, and if so, was she also sent to Canada ?  I have lots of work ahead , and thanks to you!!
May the joy and happiness that you are giving me today fill also your hearth!!
regards! and xx

jacques

[uk2003]

Hi Jacques

Nice to see you moving on this one again.
The info kath has dug out throws some interesting problems your way, just to make sense I had to put it into an Excel Spreadsheet, but still doing my head in - William to Thomas to Henry whats going on?

Easy bits now

Ettie I think is short for Henrietta

Found interesting link on the IGI site -  but most likely not connected
Event(s): Henrietta Howard Female
Birth:  1889   Longton, Stafford, England   
Death:  02 DEC 1906   
 
You can see some photos of

Hendham Vale
Pearson Street
Major Street

here
http://www.images.manchester.gov.uk/

Regards
Ken

[heywood]

Hi Jacques - it's all a pleasure and here is a bit more which belongs I think:

1901 RG13; Piece: 3776; Folio: 56; Page: 6.

4 Tavistock Street Harpurhey
Jonathan Summersgill head 48 yrs mechanic engine fitter
Elizabeth Ann wife 46 yrs
William Thomas son 17 yrs brick setter's labourer
Elizabeth  daur 12 yrs
Hettie Howard niece 14 yrs
all born Manchester

Now I confess I had thought that Elizabeth of 1891 census was not 'respectably married' perhaps but I was wrong!
Also Elizabeth is a daughter to Thomas and Mary Dunn (1881) but also a daughter to William and Mary in 1871 and therefore should have been there in 1861!
 Is Mary the mother (william's widow)but then why is Mary Ellen a niece?
Hettie Howard is shown as a niece to Elizabeth.
Who is Henry Malone?
Oh dear!!

There is a marriage for Jonathan Summersgill and Elizabeth Ann Mullaney 1875 4th quarter Manchester 8d 455. (Could be useful for witnesses).

[coco-cool]

Hello Ken and Kath!!
Thanks for your informations!!
 I checked the Free BMD and I found that from 1838 to 1850, 4,175 boys were given the name William Henry!! So could it be possible that Wiiliam Malone is the same man as Henry Malone?  The age would fit, as well as the place of birth....

I would also say that it is the same man, cause in 1891, John ,44years old, and Joseph 26 are both noted as his sons...If Henry was an uncle...they would have written nephew; and we also see that Mary Howard and Hettie Howard are called grand-daughters... and the same goes for Mary Summersgill ...  So we have 5 written proofs that Henry is the same man as William.

Was the Mary living with Thomas Dunn , William's wife? I would think so..... is she having an affair with her husband's collegue? Thomas is also a shoemaker... Is Wiiliam away , sick or on his own  for a while, or with somebody else...
Why in the  1881 census are the seven children of William and Mary from 1871 almost all called step sons? Was the status of a person living in the house determined in regards to the Head of the household?  If so, it would also mean that thomas' Mary is Wiiliam.s wife...
But I still have a lot of work to do; I ordered six  birth certificates tonight...  we will have results in a couple of weeks!!
And I thank you also Kath for the 1901 census where Hettie Howard is living at her mother's sister, Elizabeth A Summersgill...   I am waiting to find out if the Harriet Howard, born 1886 Manchester 8d,296 is my grandmother's little sister...
But if Hettie was still in England in 1901, why was her sister Mary ( my grandmother) sent to Canada to be adopted?  This Hettie may confirm our family tradition about my grandmother arriving to Canada by mistake...
Let's keep working  and thanks again for your support!!
regards

jacques

[coco-cool]

Hello again everybody

My mother always told me that her mother (Mary Howard) had arrived in Canada by mistake; she probably heard that story from Mary Howard herself... She was not supposed to leave the country. But one day, when she saw her friends going on the boat, she followed them  and it's only after the boat had left that someone realized that she was on board   and should not have been... 

She was only 8 years old, old enough to follow her friends, but not old enough to realise that  she was doing something she would not be able to undo... One thing that could corroborate that is the fact that her possible sister Hettie, whos is living with her in 1891 at  their grandfather Malone's  house  is still in England with family in 1901. Someone told me one day that in those days, families would help each other and be there for the other. Now that we know that my grandmother was not in an orphanage after her mother's death in May 1890 but with her grandfather Malone, and uncle John and Joseph, and with sister Hettie, it's easier to belive that she came by mistake, and not that nobody in the family wanted her...
I still have to work on that... I made a request to the Bernardo organization... but it could take a while before receiving an answer; but if they don't have a file on her... it could maybe mean that she came by mistake...
 we will know one day!

thanks  for reading my topo and helping me go further in my investigation!

Regards

jacques

[heywood]

As you say, Jacques, lots of work to do. I wondered if William was also Henry but am confused about the Dunns!
As a matter of interest, where did your grandmother go when she arrived - is that known?
regards
Kath

[coco-cool]

Hello Kath
When my grandmother arrived in Quebec in 1893 on the SS.Circassian, she was put on a train with other children, and the train stopped at each train station where  people would pick up a child as they wish!!The train stopped at Victoriaville, and the owner of the Grand Union Hotel( the first class hotel at that time according to newspapers), mr. Jean-Thomas Samson, said " I want the little red haired girl"" and it was my grandmother!! She was lucky cause they were a very good family.

 Mr Thomas Samson had only one daughter, Mathilda, older than little Mary.  I am still in contact with the daughter -in law of Mathilda, mrs Marguerite Kiropuac-Beaudet in Victoriaville; she is over 80 years old, and she gave me the wedding picture of Mary( I had never seen it) , and a picture of Mary and my mother when she was 1 year old ( the oldest picture of my mother  I had was  when she was 6 or 7 years old)! What a joy to find that!!
The Samsom-Beaudet tradition doesn't say that my grandmother arrived to Canada by mistake; our version was new to mrs Kirouac-Beaudet... which is the right one? lol

Thanks for your message.

have a nice day Kath!!
regards

jacques