Looking for Francis Duppa, Aldgate, born around 1770?

[miss marple]

Hello all

I have found a reference in The London Directory 1772 to Francis Duppa, goldsmith, of 15 Aldgate Within. This was the address of James Duppa, goldsmith, until his death in 1771, and afterwards of his wife Mary, goldsmith, in various directories from 1775-1800.

I know James and Mary married in 1765 and had two children, Ann (1766) and James (1767), baptised at St Katherine Creechurch. However, Mary's brother-in-law leaves a bequest to "my sister-in-law Mary Duppa and her three children" – though if Francis was another son he would only have been a maximum of seven years old in 1772! If anyone can find any other reference to a Francis Duppa around that time I would be very pleased to hear about it. (Sadly neither he nor James Duppa appear in Arthur G. Grimwade's "London Goldsmiths 1697-1837").

Thanks for your help!

Jane

[jorose]

If he was in the directory in 1772, surely he had to be an adult. At seven years of age he would not even have been apprenticed yet.  Possibly Francis Duppa was the brother of James instead, or a cousin, or possibly (when was James born?) a son from an earlier marriage?

I think the third child mentioned in the brother-in-law's will may be christened as JOHN DIPPA, son of James Dippa and Mary, b. 18 Jan 1769 c. 25 Jan 1769 St. Katherine Creechurch (source: IGI) (you can now search using just first names of parents and a batch number, which was helpful).

Which still leaves us with the question of who the heck Francis is!

[miss marple]

Many thanks for your help – yes, John Dippa does look very likely! That's one alternative spelling I hadn't thought of. The IGI is usually pretty good at coming up with near (and sometimes not so near) matches, but it certainly missed that one. I didn't know you could use parents' first names only with a batch number – that'll be useful in the future.

As you say, Francis remains a mystery. I don't know when James was born, but in his will signed shortly before his death in 1771 he leaves an annuity to his mother; if she was still alive I imagine he can't have been more than around 60 years old. Possibly time enough to have had an earlier marriage and son, though in his will he makes no mention of him (he doesn't make any mention of John, either, though he does name James and Ann). He leaves his goldsmith's business in trust to his brothers-in-law, directing them to carry on his trade (as they were a pastry cook and a plumber they might have found that difficult!) and give the profits from it to his mother, wife and children. So I wonder why he didn't mention this Francis Duppa, whoever he was?

Oh well, just one more family mystery to tease and torment us! But thanks for finding John for me.

Jane

[Novak20]

It's a bit odd that Francis appears only in the 1772 directory -- preceding ones have James and the following ones have Mary. Possibly Francis was a relative acting as caretaker before Mary took over.

I see that in the list of liverymen for London in 1792 there is James Duppa, Bow Lane, Stationer. And from the same period, directories mention

James Duppa, Paper hanging warehouse, 34 Old Broad Street

Possibly this is the James born in 1769. It should be possible to confirm this by checking the Stationers Company apprentice register.

best,
Mike

[miss marple]

Hello Mike

Yes, it does seem odd that Francis makes such a brief appearance and then disappears without trace. I think my next move is to contact the Worshipful Company of Goldsmiths to see if they can throw any light on things.

I was interested in the "James Duppa, stationer"  you found as I hadn't come across this reference before. This James Duppa was definitely James Duppa the goldsmith's son; he first appears in a directory between 1791 and 1792 as a paper hanging manufacturer at 39 Bow Lane, so perhaps he started off as a stationer and moved into wallpaper (or perhaps stationery included wallpaper in those days!)

Can I ask where you found the list of liverymen? It sounds a useful resource. Was it from the Guildhall Library?

Thanks for your help!

Jane

[Novak20]

There is certainly a copy of the 1792 list of liverymen at the Guildhall library, and many others which would be worth checking (they have a catalogue at the desk in the reading room)

If you visit the Guildhall, there's an indexed list of Goldsmiths' Company liverymen by W. Prideaux (check their catalogue). I think this should be somwhat more comprehensive that Grimwade's book. Otherwise, you could contact the archivist at Goldsmiths' Hall.

Bear in mind that most livery guilds had effectively lost control of their trades by the early C18 (if not earlier), and it was common for liverymen to go into trades quite unrelated to the company they were apprenticed in.

best,
Mike

[Brian Rollings]

Hi Jane
I am new to this site so forgive me if I don't get things right straight off.
I am also researching Duppas in London and have also  come across James Duppa, Goldsmith who died in 1771 leaving wife Mary and his two children, James jnr and Ann.
You query why Mary's brother-in-law (named?) mentions three children in his Will. Mary was married twice, first to Thomas ABDY and then James Duppa. She had two children by Thomas Abdy, Ann and William Jervis Abdy. I believe Ann died in infancy and only William survived to become a curate then vicar of St John Horseleydown in Southwark.
The third person referred to in the brother-in-law's Will would have been William Jervis Abdy.
I would love to exchange information with you. How we do get in touch outside the Roots Chat format?

Brian

Moderator Comment: Email address removed in accordance with Rootschat policies to prevent spam and other internet abuses.

[dawnsh]

Hello Brian

Welcome to Rootschat   


Jane (Miss Marple) hasn't been online for a couple of days, but should receive notification that you have posted a reply to her topic.

As soon as you make another post, you will then be able to send your email address to her on the personal message system and any other Rootschatters who may have the same surname interests as yourself.

Hope this helps.

Dawn
(Co-moderator for London & Middlesex)

[Mrsalip]

HI all,
I am also working on connections to the Abdy/Duppa family you mention.
I am tracing back through Samuel Nicholl goldsmith of Aldgate, looking for male Nicholl lines.
I also found Mary Nicholl (daughter of Samuel Nicholl, godlsmith) married first to Thomas Abdy and then James Duppa (goldsmith)
I would like to send you the work in progress tree I have of the Nicholl family of Thomas Nicholl, tanner, of Barking father of Samuel Nicholl, goldsmith.
In particular, James Duppa (the paper manufacturer) was put in charge of his cousins William Nicholl and George Nicholl sons of Rev Samuel Nicholl of Bix and Sutton Courtney, and grandsons of Samuel Nicholl, goldsmith.
James Duppa stood guarantor for George Nicholl When he went to Bengal (and died there).
William Nicholl was midshipman on HMS Ajax in the battle of Trafalar in 1805.

Can we compare notes please?
Thanks
Ali