Richard & Elizabeth COULDERY - Greenwich & Deptford

[WG]

I can't find any trace of Richard and Elizabeth COULDERY in any census at Ancestry.com. I know only that Elizabeth died 10 May 1876 in Deptford, Kent and Richard was a railway porter.

The IGI lists the following children christened at St Alphage, Greenwich.  All show father Richard Couldery and mother Elizabeth.

  Name                           Born             Christened

  Richard Chapel Couldery                         29 Dec 1816
  Robert Couldery             25 May 1819         17 Jan 1827
  Susannah Couldery           26 Mar 1827         24 Nov 1837
  Susannah Couldery                               17 Feb 1836
  Henry Couldery              24 Aug 1828         17 Sep 1828
  James Couldery              28 Aug 1830         20 Sep 1830
  Thomas Cootling Couldery    24 Apr 1832         14 May 1832

I can't find the children in the census either.  Can anyone help?

[Dave Francis]

Hi there

A puzzle indeed!

Are you referring to the Elizabeth Couldrey registered June qtr 1876, Greenwich vol 1d page 470?

If so, her age at death is 55 in the GRO Index which would make it impossible for her to have been the mother of those children.

Is it possible that Richard died very young, that his wife remarried and that the family took on a different surname?

Cheers
Dave

PS: How do you know that Richard was a railway porter?

[WG]

Thanks Dave.  I couldn't find Elizabeth's death in the index so I didn't know her age at death. You're right that she couldn't be the mother of those children if she died in 1876 at age 55. Maybe I'm dealing with two different Richard & Elizabeth couples.

I have a list of Couldery wills which another Couldery researcher compiled years ago. It has this entry:

COULDERY, ELIZABETH  d. 10th MAY 1876 OF 6 HEREFORD PLACE
DEPTFORD KENT.  WIFE OF RICHARD COULDERY
RAILWAY PORTER.  ADMIN P.P.R. 27th JUNE 1876
TO RICHARD  £200

I assumed the Richard & Elizabeth I found in the IGI were the same ones from the will but perhaps I'm wrong. Still, it's strange that I can't find anything on any Richard & Elizabeth Couldery in the census. Perhaps an address lookup of 6 Hereford Place, Deptford in the 1871 census would provide a clue (assuming address lookups are possible in 1871).

As you say, it's possible that Richard died young and Elizabeth remarried, taking a different surname.

I also thought it was strange that the IGI shows two christenings for Susannah. My first thought was that the first Susannah died young and they named their next daughter Susannah also. But that doesn't fit with the dates as they overlap -- one Susannah was born in 1827 and christened in 1837, and the other was christened in 1836 (while the other was obviously still alive). So perhaps this also suggests more than one Richard & Elizabeth couple.

[Dave Francis]

Hi there

Regarding the two Susannah's, it's possible that the date of birth was actually March 1837, not March 1827.  Otherwise, yes there would be two couples called Richard & Elizabeth Couldrey.  It doesn't seem terribly likely for such an uncommon surname.

As regards 6 Hereford Place in Deptford, in 1881 the property was occupied by a railway porter called Robert H Richardson (age 35, Bletchingley) with his wife Mary and children, plus two boarders Messrs Reith and Pile (both railway workers).

And in 1871 the property was occupied by a bricklayer called William C S Wackett (age 23, b. Deptford) with his wife May Ann and child, plus a boiler maker called George Helyar (30, b.Bridport) also with wife and child. [RG10/744 folios 9-10 pp12-13]  No Couldrey's along this stretch of road.

I'm wondering whether the address is a red herring.  Is it possibly where Elizabeth was living when she wrote her Will (perhaps many years earlier) rather than where she died?  The death certificate should reveal all!

Dave

[mlrfn448]

Hi,

The 1861 has a Richard Couldey and wife Eliza as follows
RG9/ 400 schedule 141 page 24, 15 John st
Richard Couldey Head age 43 Quillan in Engine Factory ?
Eliza age 43

1871 as follows
Greenwich St Alphage RG10 755, schedule 25, page 6
 (mis transcribed as Anldery, but reads to me as Couldery)
Richard Couldery, 55 unreadable general line, greenwich
Elizabeth wife, 54, greenwich
Joseph son age 15, railway .. unreadable, greenwich

Hope this helps

[Dave Francis]

Hi,

The 1861 has a Richard Couldey and wife Eliza as follows
RG9/ 400 schedule 141 page 24, 15 John st
Richard Couldey Head age 43 Quillan in Engine Factory ?
Eliza age 43

1871 as follows
Greenwich St Alphage RG10 755, schedule 25, page 6
 (mis transcribed as Anldery, but reads to me as Couldery)
Richard Couldery, 55 unreadable general line, greenwich
Elizabeth wife, 54, greenwich
Joseph son age 15, railway .. unreadable, greenwich

Hope this helps

Well spotted!

I think Richard's occupation in 1871 is "stopman general line" and Joseph's is "railway telegraph messenger".

In 1861 I think his occ reads "driller in engine factory".

The household's incomplete, incidentally.  Here's the full monty:

1861 Greenwich (West)
RG9/400 folio 138 pp 24-25
15 John Street
Richard Couldey, head, 43, driller in engine factory, Greenwich Kent
Eliza do., wife, 43, Greenwich Kent
Elizabeth Fay, niece, 14, Greenwich Kent
Joseph Cutridge, nursechild, 4 mo[nths], Greenwich Kents
... separate household, same address ...
Esther Watkins, head, widow, 79, [birthplace not stated]

So where was their son Joseph (age 5) in 1861?

[Valda]

1841 census HO107 489/19 folio 19 page 7
(Greenwich Royal Hospital for Seamen- indexed as, but the page itself says Union workhouse) Greenwich  Kent 
Henry Couldery 13  Kent Pauper

Potential deaths before 1841 on the civil registration
Deaths Dec 1837
COULDERY  Elizabeth    Greenwich  5 145   
COULDERY  James     Greenwich  5 134   
COULDERY  Richard     Greenwich  5 145

1851 census HO107 1587 folio 276
The ? Pub Traflagar Place Greenwich  Kent 
Richd Couldry  31 Greenwich, Kent,  Servant  Unmarried Potman

Marriages Sep 1852
BUZZEY  Elizabeth    Lewisham  1d 900   
COULDREY  Richard     Lewisham  1d 900   
Saunter  Charles     Lewisham  1d 900   
SINDON  Mary Jane     Lewisham  1d 900

Marriages Mar 1879
COULDRY  Richard     Greenwich  1d 842   
FRANCIS  Charlotte     Greenwich  1d 842   

1881 census RG11 708 folio 115
61 Pagnal Street Deptford St Paul  London
Richard Couldrey 62 Greenwich, Kent,  Head  Married Railway Porter
Charlotte Couldrey 59 Swindon, Wiltshire,  Wife Married   
plus 2 boarders

Deaths Jun 1889
Couldery  Richard  69  Lewisham  1d 570 

Regards

Valda

[WG]

Thanks, everyone, for all the replies.

1861 Greenwich (West)
RG9/400 folio 138 pp 24-25
15 John Street
Richard Couldey, head, 43, driller in engine factory, Greenwich Kent
Eliza do., wife, 43, Greenwich Kent
Elizabeth Fay, niece, 14, Greenwich Kent
Joseph Cutridge, nursechild, 4 mo[nths], Greenwich Kents
... separate household, same address ...
Esther Watkins, head, widow, 79, [birthplace not stated]

I found this one especially interesting as I have a Joseph Couldery who married Rebecca WATKINS 13 Jul 1876 at Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster. I have Rebecca's parents as William Finniss WATKINS and Ann.  And Joseph's parents are William Lovelace COULDERY and Jane BARKER.  Still, I wonder if Esther WATKINS is related to Rebecca -- perhaps her grandmother?  Could someone lookup Esther in the earlier census' please?

Also, could someone lookup the niece, Elizabeth FAY in 1851 please?

Thanks,

WG

[WG]

Marriages Mar 1879
COULDRY  Richard     Greenwich  1d 842   
FRANCIS  Charlotte     Greenwich  1d 842   

1881 census RG11 708 folio 115
61 Pagnal Street Deptford St Paul  London
Richard Couldrey 62 Greenwich, Kent,  Head  Married Railway Porter
Charlotte Couldrey 59 Swindon, Wiltshire,  Wife Married   
plus 2 boarders

Deaths Jun 1889
Couldery  Richard  69  Lewisham  1d 570 

Thanks Valda.  It looks like Richard re-married after Elizabeth died in 1876. I had found Richard COWDREY, railway porter, at 61 Pagnell St in the 1881 LDS CDs and wondered if it was really Richard COULDERY, but I don't have access to the images to check it. Since you've spelled it COULDREY, can I assume you've checked the image? Or did you use a different index?