cantrell of Ashover, Sutton cum Duckmanton

[marp]

Hi,

The will of John Cantrill  the miner has been invaluable for sorting out relationships with Israel  Cantrill born  around 1660/61  who is my direct ancestor.

 We know from John Cantrill's will that Israel is his brother.   Israel born about 1660/61.   John Cantrill and Elizabeth Birkes are the parents pf his siblings so i am assuming they are Israel's parents too.  John Cantrill and Elizabeth Birkes were married in Ashover on 14 September 1662.  Their marriage certificate indicates  both  were of Ashover.  Elizabeth was certainly born there of John there is some doubt.

We have something of a mystery here in that Israel's baptism cannot be found so far.  He was probably born prior to the marriage of father John and wife Elizabeth Birkes.  Has he a different mother? Was he baptised by a Dissenting cleric and the baptism not registered?

Who  is John Cantrill the father of Israel?   We know that the 1670 Hearth Tax Records indicate  a John Cantrill of Ashover had one Hearth.  One piece of information which may be speculative  is that he was born in Repton about 1640 his father also being John and his mother an Ann Brookes.
The family tree still needs work!

Any information would be welcome.

Thanks, marp


 

[Designer Jeans]

Hi Molly C

I know nothing about architecture, building or bricks in 17th century Derbyshire!  However I have been researching in the area for years and can't recall coming across a brick maker before.  I could find next to nothing on DRO searching by 'brick", this on NA https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/4a2b8ec6-c19c-40a1-af98-8ec6a1c46d7e and more generally https://www.heritagecrafts.org.uk/craft/brick-making/#:~:text=Historically%2C%20the%20clay%20would%20be,the%20shape%20of%20the%20brick. also https://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/site-elements/documents/pdf/environment/conservation/buildingmaterialsadvice/stone-slate-roofs-guidance-for-owners-of-historic-buildings.pdf  From which I deduce that whilst brick making may have been carried out in Derbyshire it was rarely documented?

[Designer Jeans]

Hi marp

John Cantrill's will 1717 mentions his brother Israel and his sister Rachel.  Israel's baptism hasn't been found but Rachel is the daughter of Thomas and Mary not John and Ann

Children of Thomas
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_queries/6874baf2b620e00cb92c344a?locale=en

Children of John
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_queries/6874bbceb620e00c8c31a039?locale=en

[Designer Jeans]

xracer - have sent you a PM

[marp]

Hi, I am now really puzzled.  I have just checked the baptismal record of John Cantrill bapt 8 November 1663 in Ashover parents John and Elizabeth..
His  will states quite clearly my brother Israel.. my sister Rachel.
The names on  the will of John Cantrill which I have just read again on FindmyPast fit very well my view that John and Elizabeth were the paretns of both Israel and rachel.
More work is required
marp



I do not find the sane fit with father Thomas Cantrill?
I have looked  on Familysearch and FindmyPast.

[Designer Jeans]

Ashover parish register goes from 1622-1623 then there is a gap until 1653

We don't know when John Cantrell (will 1717) was born or baptised. 

What we have is the baptism of Rachel dau of Thomas and Mary bpt 2/2/1656/7 and Abigail dau of Thomas and Mary bpt 1/10/1660 both Ashover. 

John's 1717 will mentions my sister Rachel and his nephew John Calton.  Abigail mar Philip Calton. 

It's possible the John bpt 1653 son of John and Ann was bur in 1673 https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/623a0f2af493fd482ae57444/john-cantrill-burial-derbyshire-ashover-1673-06-05?locale=en

[MollyC]

Reply #37

Brickmaking may have been carried out in Derbyshire

If Richard learned his trade in Derbyshire he was more likely to have been resident in the east of the county.

[Designer Jeans]

That's a very good point, thank you Molly

[marp]

Hi,

 John Cantrill  was Baptised in Ashover on 8 November 1663.  He was the son of John and Elizabeth. It also made sense as he was the eldest son born after the marriage of John and Elizabeth and so named after his father.
I agree John is a pretty common name and likely to crop up in many families.  Just look it up and you will find it.

Basically your argument is because you found a baptism for Rachel with different parents than the known baptism of John (son of John and Elizabeth").   I do not wish to be too argumentative but both you and I need more evidence - proof has not been established..

Rereading John Cantrill's will it is quite obvious Rachel married someone called Hurt - no sign of a Hunt, it is an 'r".   If you look at baptism records you see the same thing not Hunt but Hurt. I knew a Hurtt family when I was growing up in Derbyshire....

More work - both of us have relied on one naptism not two and it is not enough.

Cheers, Marp