Rent a grave !

[Jed59]

Well, one thing that can be done is to write to the person named in the article, politely explaining why its wrong. A few sackfuls of post on his desk would draw his attention to the fact that folk think its disgusting.
Also a copy to your local Member of parliament and the Member for the area  concerned .at the The House of commons, London W1A 1AA...as i say, suggesting an alternative for example no more burials unless a family plot, since whatever they do the space will be filled eventually.
Just a thought.

[dawnsh]

I'm sure my comments are going to cause a stir but I wanted to add my thoughts so here goes anyway.....

The City of London cemetery at Manor Park in the article opened in the 1850's. The early plots may have been sold on a 75 or 100 year 'lease' which would have long expired by now, not a freehold or 'in perpetuity' plot. The cemetery has done what it can with regard to contacting the descendents of the now also dead owners of the graves. This situation hasn't only just happened, it's been rumbling on for years.

I know we all get excited about finding our loved ones plots but the reality is often this. The graves are unloved, untended and unvisited. The local authorites who look after the cemeteries spend as much as they can on keeping them tidy but if they aren't visited what's the point? I discovered an old family plot in an early London cemetery and couldn't tidy up the grave very much as it's now considered a wildlife conservation area. To my knowledge I was the first visitor to the grave since the 1930's.

While the nation choses burial over cremation, this situation is going to be repeated several times. The cemetery has run out of space, London has run out of space and something needs to be done. Consider the fact that these plots may have been dug for 4 or 6 interrments and only 2 used so there is 'room' for 2 or 4 more on top. I know this sounds callous but it's a realistic proposal.

With regard to donation the headstones to FHS's, it's a great idea but where are they going to keep them, these memorials are solid marble and weigh several hundreds of pounds. The ones depicting angels and cherubs even more so. Many of the inscriptions have weathered away completely over the years and are completely illegible now. If you've ever been involved in a memorial inscription project you'll know exactly what I mean.

I know this subject will keep going for a while, we all have our own opinions which we are entitled to. I respect the comments of the previous posters and do not wish to cause offence by posting mine, but hope that another view point can be considered.

Thanks for reading.

Dawn

[MarieC]

I am as dismayed as others by this.

I am in Australia, and am trying hard (and so far unsuccessfully!) to find where some of my ancestors are buried in England. 

It would be devastating if I eventually find burial records, try to visit if I get to England some time, and find the graves have been reused and all trace of my ancestors obliterated.

I understand the pressure on land, but this is very sad stuff.

MarieC

[Penninah]

Just because the graves are no longer visited does not give the council/government a license to vandalize their headstones, regardless of their condition!! They are monuments, monuments to the people that lie  beneath them! (whatever next? recycling war memorials?) I'm all for recycling but i draw the line at grave desecration! As you say (Dawn) everyone is entitled to their opinion and i am just voicing mine and as i can see I'm not alone in this train of thought, do we not get a voice in this as a nation? You say it has been rumbling on a while but this is the first i have heard of it, hardly broadcasted it have they? one wonders why. I appreciate that London, being in the state it is in regards to cramming as many people into a small a place as possible, is finding space some what at a premium. However, why not find somewhere to build a new Cemetery? They seem to find the space and money to build all these monstrous new housing estates that are overstretching the resources of towns like mine to the limit! Surely when you build new homes at this rate (and fill them just as quickly) Having to build new schools, Hospitals..... Cemeteries is part and parcel? or do they figure that these people have been dead over 'X' amount of years and 'we'll save some cash and just shove a few more in'! This is an absolute outrage!!! Do we not get any peace even in death now? I'd hate to think this is whats in store for me in 100 years time! Disgraceful.

Penninah 

[dawnsh]

I agree with your suggestion that alternatives and new cemeteries are needed. There are plans for one not 6 miles from where I live but the proposal is being objected to because of the loss of greenbelt land.

http://www.your-northwood-hills.co.uk/#cemetry

However, cremation should also be considered. The families can then scatter the ashes to the 4 winds or in a special place, or they can be kept in an urn for the family to look after, many a grandparent is sitting on a mantle piece somewhere.

But also consider this. My father had been a funeral director for over 50 years. When he retired 3 years ago he had to decide what to do with a cupboard full of uncollected urns of ashes dating back several decades. In that whole time he had written to the families, arranged and carried out other funerals for them, kept in touch with them, reminded them on a regular basis that he still had their dear departed loved ones in storage. None were collected. Last year my parents left London and moved to Lincolnshire, my father felt duty bound to make one last effort to reunite the urns with their families but with little success. So what did he do? Moved to Lincolnshire and took them with him. Now what will I and my brothers do with them when my parents finally die and we have their house to clear? If he couldn't get them back to the families what chance do we have.

Yes this is a subject close to our hearts but we must also remember that when the plots were then and are today purchased it is on the terms of a lease and at then end of that term the land reverts back to the cemetery company. It is in your families interests to keep safe the deeds to the plots and update and transfer the ownership when elderly relatives die.

By all means write and complain to your MP's, local authorities and cemetery companies, join cemetery Friends associations and campaign for this not to happen, but for a lot of families when great aunti Flo and great uncle Jack have left this life they are often forgotten without a second thought.

But when you do discover a family plot though, do you then start visiting on a regular basis, place plants or flowers, remember their anniversaries? With families so far removed from their ancestors these days it's very often not logistically possible.  Once you have a nice selection of photos they may never be visited again.

Going back to genealogy and us as genealogists, out of this country's population, we are a small group of people whose hobby does not appeal to everyone and likewise this re-use of graves will not interest, upset or anger a lot of the people.

Dawn

[Penninah]

There is no justification for this, no matter how hard some people may try to find some! Regardless to the fact these graves are no longer frequented. (Perhaps the line died out, the family emmigrated or simply that their existance is yet unkown to a living ancestor- maybe it would be an idea try and find the relations rather than sticking coloured tags on headstones! Whatever, It still doesnt make this alright, its disrespectful in the extreme! 

Penninah

[alllegs]

Well said Penninah,

I echo your words entirely.  If I were to find out that one of my ancestors were buried there only to find that their stone had been erased and people buried on top I'd be livid and heartbroken. 

NO-ONE has the right to erase people no matter how long they've been dead for any reason.  It is dispicable.

The dead were left to rest by their loving familys and they should still be resting in peace not being disturbed and forgotten just so the councils can make a quick buck.

Legs
xxxxx

[nanny jan]

I have only  just discovered that my grandma, who died when my dad was just a little boy, is buried in Manor Park Cemetery.

How can we stop these plans?How long have I got to make a journey from deepest Dorset to see if I can find her grave?

This is really sad news.......


Nanny Jan

[siptree]

You really need to clarify if it is Manor Park or the City of London Cemetery, which is also in Manor Park. It is the C of L that has these plans. I have grandparents, parents and aunts and uncles in both cemetaries. I dare say a good many of my ancestors are there that I don't even know about. As long as they are not 'digging' people up and removing them, I am not too concerned. We need to understand that if this cemetary runs out of space alternatives will have to be found. This might mean cemetaries miles and miles away from the recently bereaved who need to visit graves. In the case of some elderly bereaved this could prevent them from visiting. I am also more concerned that the cemetary is able to be kept looking pleasant.With no income from new burials how long will residents be prepared to pay for upkeep. I do think the graves should be recorded and records accessable. Also, where do we draw the line as to when graves should be preserved? Leave all those anglo saxon graves, the pharos, roman graves........when is it ok to build on or remove bodies, whatever. I'm not sure what does everyone else think?   Susan