Martin family, Killinchy

[Huentetu]

I am looking for any of the Martin family of Killinchy. My Great-grandfather, William Martin son of Robert, was born in Drumreagh 16 January 1855. Robert was a farmer and the family was Presbyterian. I am after the name of William's mother, wife of Robert. Any ideas?

[Christopher]

Hello Huentetu,

The FHL BRITISH Film 823877 Item 6 Killinchy Presbyterian Church : list of births 1835-1900 might show the name of William's mother.

Were the Martin family Presbyterians or Non Subscribing Prebyterians?

Christopher

[Huentetu]

Christopher, I don't know which kind of Presbyterian they were, but William attended Assembly's College (now Union College) the first Presbyterian seminary in Ireland. He was later pastor at the Presbyterian Church in Ballymeena. His father was called Robert and he had one sister, perhaps called Margaret.

[BallyaltikilliganG]

Have you tried the split into  three parts for Martin databases at freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/M/MartinKW.htm
where in the 3rd one covering first names K-W. 
heres an example
 Robert MARTIN . Killinchy of Drumreagh; died aged 48; husband of Anne Jane who d. 20 Dec 1848 aged 25; father of Jane & Lowry; buried Ballymacashen Reformed Presbyterian graveyard MIs

[Huentetu]

Yes, I have looked at Ros Davis'  lists but there are just too many Robert Martins and I do not have enough information. I know from marriage certificates Robert was alive in 1883 when son William married his first wife, and deceased when in 1892 he remarried. A Donald Martin was a witness on the first certificate. I can follow William from Ireland to England to the USA and then Japan and finally to his death in China. What I am missing is his Mother's name and his sister's name, although it is probably Margaret.

[BallyaltikilliganG]

Sticking my neck out slightly, yes there are plenty of Robert Martins, but as you know William Martin son of Robert, was born in Drumreagh 16 January 1855. So sticking to your knowledge Robert was a farmer and presumably in Drumreagh and farmers don’t move about that often. What are the available records for Martins in Drumreagh.
From Ros davies Co Down website
Alexander MARTIN . Killinchy family burying place c. 1850 at Ballymacashen Reformed Presbyterian graveyard MIs
Alexander MARTIN . Killinchy born 15 Jul 1803; husband of Christian; father of Catherine, Mary L. & Nathaniel & Caroline; died 6 Mar 1895; buried Ballymacashen Reformed Presbyterian graveyard MIs
Lowry MARTIN . Killinchy of Drumreagh; died 19 Aug 1900 aged 51; son of Robert & Anne Jane Martin; buried Ballymacashen Reformed Presbyterian graveyard MIs
Jim notes Lowry MARTIN b 1849
Nathaniel Carr MARTIN . Killinchy born 11 Dec 1854; son of Alexander & Christian; d. 25 Mar 1888; buried Ballymacashen Reformed Presbyterian graveyard MIs
Robert MARTIN . Killinchy of Drumreagh; died aged 48; husband of Anne Jane who d. 20 Dec 1848 aged 25; father of Jane & Lowry; buried Ballymacashen Reformed Presbyterian graveyard MIs
Robert MARTIN . Killinchy in Ballymacashen; leased a house & garden from Matthew William Lowry in 1863 GV
So that suggests that they nearly all must be members of Ballymacashen Reformed Presbyterian.

Marriage records in the area go strange after 1845, as Government takes an interest. I doubt if further church marriage records would have all been pulped. So lets guess that the marriage is between 1845 and 1856.

Ros Davies records the Presbyterians and their records in Killinchy Parish as follows 1st Presbyterian Church in Balloo townland Records available are baptisms 1812- 1837 & births 1835- 1900, marriages 1812- 1845, PRONI MIC/1P/404
From 2nd or Reformed Presbyterian Church,  Ballymacashin, on the Killinchy to Saintfield road {The 1st Presbyterian church divided on doctrine. They met in a barn until the church could be built in 1847. 400 people attended this church in 1833. In 1864 the sexton's house & yard was next door. Also known as Killinchy R. P. Church.  Records available are marriages 1835-1845;
Presbyterian Non Subscribing Church (Remonstrant) in Balloo townland, on the Killinchy to Saintfield road Records not mentioned.

Griffiths Valuation of Ireland probably 1863 has only
Surname First Name Townland Parish County
Following are the exact matches:
Martin          Jane                Ballymacreelly         Killinchy     Down
Martin          John                Aughnadarragh          Killinchy     Down
Martin          John                Barnamaghery           Killinchy     Down
Martin          Mary Anne           Ballymacreelly         Killinchy     Down
Martin          Robert              Ballymacashen          Killinchy     Down
Martin          Robert              Ballymacreelly         Killinchy     Down
Martin          Robert              Drumreagh              Killinchy     Down
I had hoped the last one would turn out to be a farmer, however Ros Davies last entry says GV was for a house and garden.entry

Most farmers ended up listed at PRONI’s freeholders I wanted to see who else in Drumreagh was a freeholder but  I couldn’t get onto to their new layout at applications.proni.gov.uk/Freeholders/default.aspx today. If you get to a convenient entry the detail sometimes mentions who is in line for the farm if the farmer dies. Wife, sons etc. That search is important to do.

Have you used www.familysearch.com
Have you used  the Ulster Historical Foundation ie ancestryireland etc
Have you used www.emeraldancestors.com
Finally have you seen the entry for William Martin in the Presbyterian Fasti of Ireland.

So trying to encourage you no to get lost in to many Robert Martins, the problem might be he didnt marry in his own church but at the wifes. Margarets birthcertificate would be interesting.
Good luck, Jim

[Huentetu]

Thanks very much for all that, Jim. It has been a couple of years since I sat down and pursued Robert. I might have another go soon.
Records for son William are very complete and the Presbyterian Historical Society in Northern Ireland (not sure if I have their name right, I'd have to dig through files) had a wealth of information which they sent me, but they only had Robert's name and occupation.
Yes, I have had an endless troll though familysearch.org. There was one entry which I marked possible for a Robert Martin born 5 Aug 1815 marrying a Margaret born 3 Feb 1813, both Killinchy. But again, I have no hard information. I have learned not to jump to conclusions. William does once mention his 'only sister' but not by name.
I know that at some point most of the family upped and moved to Glasgow and I can find some of them there with an address, but by that time no Robert, and no indication of what their relationship was to Robert.
What I was always reluctant to do was pay a lot of money for a search as the first world's hard currency translates to enormous sums here in Chile.
I'll sit down again and see what I have and what new information may have come online in the last couple of years.
Thank you very much for refreshing my memory about sources.

[BallyaltikilliganG]

I apologise that I understand very little about Chile but I do understand  much more about charges for basic human rights certificates. We are in a mind set.  If you try again do please request written information direct from the Boss/Managing Director/ Chief Manager / Civil servant/ clergy/ or those appointed to help that church/or whoever:.
I would suggest explaining your financial circumstances asking for them for help in your quest, explaining further in more detail Chiles financial exchange status, asking them to have the matter referred to their management board in Northern Ireland  not for a special case, but for dispora who cant afford rates as charged in the Republic of Ireland or Northern Ireland Nor S .
I  am thinking particulary of those bodies claiming  educational charity status. Give them time to reply say 3 months, if there is no answer or  an unsatisfactory answer, please report that position to all irish people N and S  via newspapers or the governng bodies of ireland., and of course all websites like rootschat. You will need to spell it out.
My irish Dad had earned a pension of £800 per annum in Uruguay in 1931 and was awarded the same in1932?, however by 1945, this pension was worth less than £5 sterling and closed off soon after.   He had paid tax in both countries from 1931 on that pension as he was out of work and returned to the uk . He soon found work.
So do please also inform this website of your next round investigation.  Support for the overseas dispora exists. JIm

[Huentetu]

I'll do as you suggest Jim. Maybe some day all information will be free and available to us about our own families.