ALIAS COMPLETED

[Charlie1]

I have found reasearching the background of my ggrandfather very challenging.  I think I have made some headway but I wondered if anyone can see obvious errors in my research ....I'm beginning to feel 'I can't see the wood for the trees'.
In short, Charles Ringrose had no history before the 1891 census.  His attestation papers for the RFA list his next of kin as Mary Ringrose, sister 62 Feather St, Kingsland Rd .... (non existent).  John ? brother ..Unknown, Mrs. Caroline Ward, sister, Stoke Newington.  I have traced Caroline, but she was never a Ringrose. She married Joseph Ward in 1880, and her maiden name was Capling.  However, Caroline's mother was Mary Eliza Ringrose, married JOhn Fredrick Capling in 1859. (John F. seems to have no records after 1861) The obvious seems to be that  Eliza Capling remarried, but I can find no evidence of this and in 1881, she lived in Bethnal Green with her two remaining sons, John and Charles Catling.  I can't find any record of any of these Caplings (apart from Caroline) after 1881 ... or on the 1871 census.  Is it too much of a leap to assume that Charles, for some reason, is using his mothers maiden name... an alias?

[MaryA]

Sorry to say I feel like I'm in the middle of a fairy story here, if I check for Charles Ringrose in the 1891 census (which you mention) I find 34 of them and have not a clue which is yours.  In all this you don't give any birth dates or places. 

You mention Kingsland Road is non-existent? I don't understand that.

Who is "Eliza" Capling? Is this somebody different to the Mary Eliza Capling? and if so how does she fit in and are the children John and Charles Catling or Capling?  or is it just mistranscribed on the 1881 census?

Why would Charles be using his mother's maiden name? What was her maiden name and have you searched for him using it?

What are the details of Mary Eliza and John F Capling in 1861?

I'm sorry for all the questions, but I can't follow without a few facts. 

Can you at least give us the details from the 1891 census to make a start from.

[liverpool annie]

Mary - I think maybe a tidy up is in order !

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,133233.msg699107.html#msg699107

Charlie - lets forget everything you think you know and start afresh ....... !!

Tell us basic details like date of birth etc and lets see what we can do to help !

Annie 

[Arranroots]

Well spotted Annie - i had forgotten all about this family!

Anyone hoping to help please be aware that a lot of work has already been done on the two other threads.

By all means try again, but just to save repeating look-ups that have already been done.

kind regards, Arranroots 

[MaryA]

Thanks both, seems there's more than one more posting too .........

[Valda]

Start with

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,132982.0.html

Piecing together what has been written on this thread

Marriages Sep 1859
Catling  John Frederick     Bethnal Gn  1c 583 
Ringrose  Mary Eliza     Bethnal Gn.  1c 583

and

Marriages Jun 1880
Ward  Joseph     Shoreditch  1c 185
Catling  Caroline Sarah G    Shoreditch  1c 185   


1861 census RG9 194 folio 37
25 Bowling Green Lane Clerkenwell St James  Middlesex   
John F Catling 26 St Lukes, Middlesex, Head Married Printer
Eliza Catling 22  Hertfordshire,  Wife  Married
Caroline Catling 5mths  Clerkenwell, Middlesex, Daughter   

Birth
December 1860 Clerkenwell Volume 1b page 514
Caroline Sarah Grace Catling

1871 census RG10 462 folio 4
24 Mary Street St Leonard Shoreditch  London 
Mary Catlin 32  Hertfordshire, Head  Married Charwoman
Caroline Catlin 10 Clerkenwell Middlesex Daughter
John Catlin 8 Clerkenwell Middlesex Son
Mary Catlin 5 Shoreditch Middlesex Daughter
Charles Catlin Bethnal Green 3 Son

1881 census RG11 395 folio 92
Joy Street Shoreditch  London   
Mary Catling 42 Hertfordshire,  Head Married Charwoman
John Catling 18 Clerkenwell, Middlesex, Son
Chas. Catling 13 Bethnal Green, Middlesex, Son 
   

What information does Sarah Caroline Grace Catling give about her father on her marriage? Does it match the information given on the 1861 census? If it does, along with the match of the 1891 census address with the address given on Charles Ringrose's army papers (you need to prove the marriage is the same couple as on the 1891 census), I would think that would present strong evidence for them being brother and sister- though not necessarily full siblings

Regards

Valda

[Valda]

The Catlings were keen on names

Births Mar 1868
Catling  Charles Christian H     Bethnal Green  1c 247

Births Mar 1866
Catling  Mary E E     Shoreditch  1c 86

Births Mar 1863
Catling John William Viner   Clerkenwell 1b 589

Marriages Dec 1886
Catling  John William V    Islington  1b 494   
Hall  Mary Ann     Islington  1b 494   

Marriages Mar 1886
Catling  Mary Eliza E     Bethnal Green  1c 352   
SALMON  John Josiah     Bethnal Green  1c 352

1891 census RG12 249 folio 110
64 Nicholas Street Shoreditch  London   
John J Salmon 29 Bethnal Green, London,  Head Married Railway Carman
Mary E E Salmon 25 Shoreditch, London, Wife Married Tinfoil Stamper

1891 census RG12 186 folio 74
17 Dunn Street Hackney  London   
John W Catling 28 Clerkenwell, London, Head  Married Bricklayer's Labourer
Mary A Catling 23 Holloway, London,  Wife Married

1901 census RG13 275 folio 86
26 Nicholas Street Shoreditch  London 
John J Salmon 38 Hackney, London, Head  Widower Railway Carman

John and or wife I can't find on the 1901 census.

Regards

Valda

[Charlie1]

Apologies, my post does come over as confused ... because I am!

My grandmother hardly knew her father Charles Ringrose.   No one ever talked of him and he was very difficult to trace because there was web of dis information around his origins.  (Rumours in the family said he died in WW1 and so on, but this was fabrication)  There are no photographs and no birth certificate.  He appeared to have no history other than a record of him being in the Royal Field Artillery.  We found a reference to him in the 1891 census based at Woolwich.  Before this date there is no record.  His marriage certificate states that his father was John Ringrose, a master painter,  but again no evidence.  The only hard facts we have to go on is the mention of his two sisters and a brother on his attestation papers.  We cant find Mary Ringrose (sister) or John (Brother).  THE only lead is Mrs. Caroline Ward (sister)of Dunn St. Stoke Newington who he lists as of next of kin.   Caroline's maiden name was Catling, so I searched from there.  The 1861 census puts Caroline with parents John Fredrick Catling and Eliza his wife.  According to BMD (ancestry . com) John Fredrick Catling married Mary Eliza Ringrose. 
In 1871, same family +  children John, Charles and Mary, 1881 no father present, but using Mary (not Eliza), John and Charles... same year of  birth, same place of birth.  I have not been able to find any Catling I have mentioned after 1881. 

Thankyou all who have offered advice.  I'm taking a step back from this research until the fog clears ...

Regards Charlie

[casalguidi]

I think Valda's got it all sorted out for you Charlie

Casalguidi