Peter Schmitt & Wilhemina VanderVelden-completed

[Sandra Parker]

I wonder if anyone knows anything about Wilhelmina  Vondervelden, (various spelling depending on which member of the family or which form was being filled in!) & Peter Schmitt, lived at 8 Ely Place, Mile End. in the late 1850's. They had sons Rudolph, (07/11/1862 born 8 Ely Place,Mile End New Town, Whitechapel) Frederick & Patrick, (I think they were born earlier). The family moved to Tonbridge Wells by 1881. (1881 census)
I am really interested in information before 1871. I'm hoping this will help us crack our GGrandfather, Gustave Van der Velden's brickwall prior to his 1868 marriage. We have plenty of info for after that time in our part of van der Velden family.
Thanks
Sandra

[Nicky]

Hi

Here they are in the 1871 census

Peter Smith, head, age 48, builders labourer born Germany
Wilemina, wife, age 46, hawker born Germany
Rudolf, son, age 9, scholar born Whitechapel

RG10 932
folio 5 page 2
Tonbridge, Kent

I will work backwards now and see what else I can find for you.

Nicky

[Sandra Parker]

Thanks for that Nicky,
Now all I need is to find out exactly where in Germany, Wilhemina came from, then I'll know exactly where in Germany her family came from, and by association, my GGrandfather, then I can get his birth details ............

Oh well, I can but hope - and dream of a minor miracle! 

But I really appreciate your help in helping me clamber a bit further up this elusive tree.
Cheers
Sandra

[Arranroots]

Hi Sandra

I suspect you already have this, but it helps to show that Peter and Wilhelmina were probably married in the 1861 census (I had some doubts that there may have been an earlier marriage, due to the big age gap with the children & finding a possible Wilhelmina with a different surname!).

Birth

Rudolph SMITH

Dec q 1862

Whitechapel

Vol 1c  Page 373

[Arranroots]

I wonder whether this is Patrick?

Birth

Patrick August SMITH

Sep 1872

Tonbridge, Kent

Vol 2a  Page 564

(The middle name seemed suitably Germanic, so I might be wildly wrong!)

A 

[Arranroots]

Time to suspend your disbelief - I am rambling now!! 

There is this birth:

Augustus Frederick Smith

Jun q 1856

Whitechapel

Vol 1c  Page 308 



There is also this (I have selected 2 of the names on the page )

Marriage

Peter SMEETS

Johanna Petronella Wilhelmina Van De POLDER

Sep 1855

Bethnal Green

Vol 1c  Page 632

I'll get my coat...

A 

BTW - how do you know Gustave's name?  Who married in 1868?

[Sandra Parker]

Thanks for the added information. I have just relocated the following info which may help clarify the Schmitt children. (from my confused earlier filing system )
According to the St Georges Lutheran Church Records they had a child baptised on 23/12/1855, 09/05/1858, 03/06/1860 &  07/12/1862.  .
So they must have been in England since 23/12/1855.

I have Gustave's marriage certificate to Elisabeth Kirschei, 25th October 1868, at Church Of St Boniface, Mile End Old Town, Middlesex, a German Catholic Church. Witnesses were Peter Smith and Wilhemina Smith. Celebrant was A.D. Purcell, RC Priest, John B. Ratcliffe Registrar.
Another family member found that Wilhemina was formerly a Vander Velden( many different spelling variation used by each of the 9 of Gustave's children, and for different occasions for the same children). I have copies of many BMD cert for the children, including Mary, my maternal grandmother.
Distant family connections have given me a more detailed ancestor line of Elisabeth Kirschei, but Gustave's background draws a complete blank, except his marriage and census docs state place of birth as Nassau. His father is given as Henry Vonderfelten, carpenter.
Cheers
Sandra

[Arranroots]

Hi again Sandra

Have you found the family in 1861?  It would be MUCH easier if we had the names of the children, whose baptisms you mention.

You don't express any opinion on the records I found above (I don't mind if you laugh, I just need to rule them in or out, if possible).

Let us know what you still need & we will do our best!

Oh, by the way - do you have Elizabeth KIRSCHEI on censuses?  Just in case they are living in the same vicinity.  Does the marriage cert say whether she was previously married?

kind regards, Arranroots 

[Nicky]

Hi
I havent yet managed to locate the family in 1861, the names of the children for the baptism dates would be a great help if you could list them with the appropriate date.
Nicky