Pub in Newbury

[Kenike]

Wondered if anyone could point me in the right direction?

I have ancestors listed in the 1861 census as residing at the Hand and Heart Inn in Bartholemew Street, Newbury. They are Joseph and Harriet Ann Challis.
The pub no longer appears on the street and I wondered what the best way was of tracing its location. It was recorded near to Hazzells Yard? and the cattle market which I now believe to have been replaced by the Kennet Centre??

 In the Newbury Billings Directory of 1854 the pub is recorded at Cowley Thomas, Bartholemew Street but is absent from the 1847 and 1864 directories held in Newbury library. Does the BRO hold other directories that may aid my search?

[newburychap]

I don't know the Hand and Heart - but will look into it.

The BRO has very few directories - they are not the sort of thing they collect (in general they are not interested in published material). The bext source of directories for Newbury are Newbury Library (you have already tried them), Reading Local Studies Library (their catalogue is online so you can check what they have before you go); and West Berkshire Museum (they have photocopies in the reception area - just drop in).

What the BRO will have are municipal and court records that may well give information on licences, rates etc.

The Hand and Heart is not on the lists of pubs I have for 1761 and 1823.
Thomas Cowley is a 'Retailer of beer' in Slater's directory of 1852. He is in the 1851 census as a 'Publican and contractor on the railroad'.
Kelly's 1848 directory of Berkshire does not show it but there are entries like 'White, Joseph, beer retailer, Bartholomew St'.  I suspect the Hand and Heart was a small beer house. As such it could easily have changed into a shop or grown into a larger pub under a different name.
Hazell's Yard is not instantly traceable - it was not going by that name in 1815 or 1878 (obviously not owned by a Hazell at that time). Following the 1861 enumerator and assuming he was following a 'walk' I would agree with you that the H&H was on the east of Bart St, north of the cattle market.  If so Hazell's yard may well have been King's Yard in 1815
The whole area has been flattened to make way for the Kennet Centre but there are pictures (the museum will have several) of the area.

The H&H appears to have been on the northeast corner of the junction of Bart St and Market St. If so it also seems to have been the 'Eagle' in 1871 (landlord Samuel Hawkins).

[Kenike]

Thankyou very much Newbury Chap.

Have pondered where it might be for some time and did wonder whether it may have changed names or use.

You have given me some great lines of enquiry, have been meaning to pop into the museum for some time and never managed it for various reasons. I didnt realise they held directories there.

Was also going to look on maps for its existance but because it only seemed to be around for a short time I thought that the various OS editions may not be enough. The Eagle line of enquiry may allow me to trace this better though along with the cattle market.

Thanks again for your help, Rootschat is proving very useful for fresh ideas. 

[newburychap]

I don't know the Hand and Heart - but will look into it.

Hi Kenike - didn't get much of a chance to talk the other night - so here is the  rundown on the Hand & Heart.

A police case in 1868 describes an incident in the Eagle (commonly known as the Hand & Heart) - see Dick Godfrey's Newbury Borough Police.

The Eagle appears in several directories; in some it is shown as being at 124 Bartholomew St.
This address later (1873ish) became the Falkland Arms. There are photographs of this pubs in Bartholomew Street scenes (mainly postcards) in the West Berkshire Museum collection.
 
The Eagle was a pub with a very bad reputation, the name change to the Falkland is almost certainly an attempt to wipe the slate clean, new landlord, new name, improved repution (still common practise today - in this case it seems to have worked).

It is probable that the Hand & Heart was previously the Lamb & Flag and before that the Lamb - which would take it back to at least 1761 (list of Newbury pubs in the Corporation minutes).

[Kenike]

Hiya Newburychap

Thanks for the info and wished I could have chatted more on the night but was kind of left holding the fort in the corner!

Sorry not to have had a chance to speak to your other half as well.

Thanks for the valuable info, I was looking in the Police book the other day but just looked up items from the index, will have to have a re-look. Will certainly follow the info up.

Thanks again

Kenike

[Vicwinann]

Thankyou very much Newbury Chap.

Have pondered where it might be for some time and did wonder whether it may have changed names or use.

You have given me some great lines of enquiry, have been meaning to pop into the museum for some time and never managed it for various reasons. I didnt realise they held directories there.

Was also going to look on maps for its existance but because it only seemed to be around for a short time I thought that the various OS editions may not be enough. The Eagle line of enquiry may allow me to trace this better though along with the cattle market.

Thanks again for your help, Rootschat is proving very useful for fresh ideas. 

Hello,

I don't know if this helps anyone.
Hazells Yard was definitely called so in 1851. There are several families living there (Berks fhs transcript) It looks to be off Bartholomew Street. At its entrance in Barthomew St HO107/1685  f. 325  p. 23  there is a Samuel and Jane Hazell (master baker) who it was possibly named after.

In 1851 Jospeh and Harriet Challis were living in Tooveys Yard and he is a bricklayers lab with a son, Robert.
I am particularly interested in the Challis's of Newbury as I have links to them.  However, I cannot connect  Joseph Challis and Harriet Ann Banning to mine as I haven't found  his baptism.
Yours
Vicwinann

[Kenike]

Hi Vicwinann

I have been researching the Challis' of Newbury myself and might be able to help you make the connection. Which are the names you are looking to link to Joseph and Harriet Ann Banning?

Kenike

[Trees]

Wow I have just stumbled against this thread.
I was looking for John Elkins when I noticed the 1851 census full of Challis people . I too am researching a family of CHALLIS in Newbury but so far haven't connected this Joseph.
But how does James Elkins fit in as a Brother to Joseph and who was the land lord? 
I'm totally confused
Kenike are you around? please can we compare notes? are you interested in the Liddiards or Messengers as well?
fingers crossed we have a common interest
trees

[Trees]

/Hi Newbury chap if you are around can you identify another pub connected to the same family.
in 1851 Cornelius Elkins was licence Victualler at Market Place, Newbury St Nicholas, Newbury

Any idea what the pub was please?