Help with person not appearing on 1861 Census even though I know he was alive.

[ianfao]

One of my relatives born in 1854 and married in 1873 is not appearing on the 1861 census.   His name is Gottlieb Robert Hill and I can trace his birth and marriage but nothing else.  When I search the 1861 census this name does not show at all. 

The family that he should belong to has a child in the name of George who is the same age.  Is it possible that he may have been called George and this name put on the census rather than his real name? 

Also,  on his marriage cerificate the name of his father is showing as William.  On the 1861 census for the address given on the marriage certificate it has the head of the house as Charles Hill and William is a son of Charles and therefore I assume an older brother to Gottlieb. 

Is it likely that if the father died an elder brother would show on the marriage certificate as the father (like a legal guardian)?   

I hope that makes sense and someone may be able to give me some ideas please.

Many thanks in advance.
Ian

[Hackstaple]

The 7 year old George would have been born the same year. Not too many chances of the family having 2 boys born in the same year.
If he was Gottlieb Robert called George then perhaps his father was William Charles called William and it is his proper name that appears on the census. But, what happens in 1851 [without George] or 1871?
And no, his brother could not appear on the marriage certificate as his father. But he was not of age when married and so would need parental authority or that of his guardian - but guardians do not appear as fathers on certificates.

[ianfao]

Thanks for that information.  I am struggling to find anything on 1851/1871 but that may be down to my ineptness.  I will persevere though.

[Daisypetal]

Hi Ian,

What is the address is on the marriage cert.?  If I'm looking at the right family in 1861 it looks like 27a Princess Rd, but I'm really not sure.

Regards
Daisy

[sillgen]

What was the father's occupation?   Is it the same on the marriage certificate as on that 1861 census - if we have the right one he was a dressmaker.    Again, if that is correct in 1851 they were probably in Lambeth as that is where the daughter was born and she is 10.
Who were the witnesses on the marriage certificate?   Was the father still alive?
Andrea

[ianfao]

On the wedding certificate the fathers occupation is a plumber (a little different to dressmaker) and his name is shown as William.

The witnesses were Rudolf Hill and Annie Hill.  From my research on the 1881 census these 2 are husband and wife.

[Manchester Rambler]

On the 1861 census, Charles Hill's age is in the "female" column, and he is listed as a dressmaker - usually a woman's job at that time, surely?  His birthplace is given as Switzerland.  The only reasonably similar family I have found so far in 1851 is this one:

HO107/1471/321/58
6 Munder Rd, Fulham

William Hill,  Head,  24,  Coal Hewer, b Roscommon, Ireland
Charlotte Hill,  Wife,  34,  b Switzerland B S
William Hill,  Son,  3,  b Lambeth
Louisa Hill,  Dau,  3m,  b Hammersmith

If it's the same family, I don't know where Rudolf (b c1848) has disappeared to.   Still looking in 1871... 


Rambler

[ianfao]

Thanks for the help it is driving me around the bend lol

[Daisypetal]

Hi,

I hadn't noticed that about Charles age, maybe 'he' is really Charlotte

When I looked at Gottlieb HILL in 1881 RG11/28  f.73 p.18, he is living at 6 Lorne Gdns, and at no.16 is a Charlotte HILL b.1815 Switzerland RG11/28  f.75 p.21

I was thought she may be his mother but couldn't find her in 1861 or 1871, still looking for 1871

Daisy