William Ralph of Bilston

[Charlieralph]

Rachel,
  Brain Bleed over the same names ? Im becoming Brain Dead over the Elizabeth
 Yes, it should be Eliza and an other interesting thing is her age has changed in the 1881 census so she could have been born in c1821 or 1827.
We also now know that Mathew may have died between 1871 and 1881 so worth a search for his death cert.

May be worth a post for a search in the 1861 census for
Mathew age 37, Eliza age 34, Ellen age 8,  John age 5 and Thomas and Ann Ralph

Brain Dead Charlie

[Charlieralph]

Why cant we find a marriage for Mathew and Eliza?
Possible non conformist marriage (not recorded)
We have 2 possible birth dates for Eliza from the census 1821 or 1827
With Letitia (1850 ,see below)being the oldest known daughter, the marriage should have taken place pre Dec 1849.
Also Ellen`s Christening was the 11th May 1851 of Mathew and Eliza (not Elizabeth)yet the census has her birth as c1853.
John birth could also be 1854 or 1856 from census

From St Mary church records Bilston Christenings.I can now confirm the following and an other Letitia for for Mathew and Eliza
Letitia 3rd Feb 1850 (did this one die?)
Ellen 11May 1851
Ann 18th Oct 1860
Rachel, this will probable cause another brain bleed. Sorry
Charlie

[RachelK]

LOL ta Charlie,

Wouldn't be worthwhile if it was easy though would it?

Had a quick look on free bmd, there is a death listed for a Letitia Ralph.

March 1/4 1850 Wolverhampton.

Could this be the extra Letitia? I don't know where Bilston would be registered sorry.

[Willow 4873]

Hiya Rachael & Charlie

Probably have got it wrong about John and Eliza Geary. Now I cant find my note about it either grrrrrr

Not sure which dates your on about relating to Matthew and Eliza. I have got that Matthew died 1871 2nd 1/4 6b 289 but I can't find a marriage cerificate for them either. From my notes somewhere I'm sure they were both listed as being born in Walsall on the one census so it might be a case of confirming that and having a trip to look at the parish register.

Bilston would come under Wolverhampton registry district Rachel

Found my other notes! (not the ones I was looking for but...) John married Sarah Hill 1887 3rd 1/4 6b 729. She died in 1908 1st 1/4 6b 388 and then he went on to marry Harriet Paskin (Mears) on 28.7.1912 which was the one I found in the parish register. Harriet was Marys sister.

Hope this helps stem some of the bleeding 

Willow x

BTW Charlie did you get the e-mail of notes I sent you?

[RachelK]

Ahhhh yes, thanks Willow.

Found John and Sarah on 1891 in Pountney St, with Sarah's mother Hannah Hill aged 68 & 1901 just the two of them. No kiddies though.  Sweet that he married Harriet after he lost his wife.

I wonder who the John Ralph and Eliza Geary were?

Also, Willow on 1871 the actual document says Mathew born Walsall, Eliza and the children Bilston except the last two Letitia and Harriet W-ton. Don't know how accurate this is, as people seem to like changing their minds about where they were born, as with with our Mears grandparents

Anyway the confusion was basically because in the Ralph doc you sent me, it said Mathew b1843 m Eliza b1837. But then, I keep confusing myself who's who anyway!

[Willow 4873]

lol tell me about it I think the Ralphs have caused the most confusion in all of my family tree

Unfortunatly I think that document I sent you was an old one and I hadn't updated it - SORRRYYY

and yes when I found John and Harriets marriage certificate I went AAHHHHH! - that got some funny looks in the archive office lol

Willow x

[RachelK]

Heehee, does that mean the marriages on it are wrong then?

Before I start going  and annoying you some more coz I can't find them on then census!

My dad made me laugh when I show him stuff coz he says to me 'yes I remember a few Elizas and Letitias being in the family', try half a dozen just to confuse us. 

[Charlieralph]

Willow,
Yes I did get your e-mail but any reply bounces back as undeliverable to your address.

Rachel and Willow
The mix up in dates are from the 1871 and 1881 census,
The dates given of year of birth vary between the two.
The birth place of Mathew is given as Wallsall in census
and Eliza as Bilston. The birth place and Christening place can be different and the other Ralph's at St Marys Bilston are known family members and all non conformists (Methodists) which I think is the reason for not finding a marriage date for Mathew and Eliza.
So Mathew could have been born in Walsall and with his father marrying in Tipton we have a strong possibility that they are connected with the canal system, which could help us give a reason for Mathew being born in Walsall and Christened in Bilston.
I will be checking the 1860 census shortly and the 1841
so I will let you know if anything turns up.
Charlie.
P.S. I MAY HAVE TURNED SOMETHING UP ON YOUR MEARS LINE BUT NEED MORE TIME TO CONFIRM AND ITS IN WARRINGTON LANCASHIRE NOT APPLETON CHESHIRE, IN NON CONFORMIST RECORDS

[RachelK]

Oooooh exciting Charlie!

I feel a bit redundant being a beginner in all this and not being able to help you two much.

In this old doc Willow you had Harriet Ralph married Moses Adams, but would I be right in saying she married John Embery and this is them in 1891 & 1901 with her mum Eliza?

Harriet Embery 31  Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Wife  Wolverhampton  Staffordshire   
Harriet Embery 8  Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Daughter  Wolverhampton  Staffordshire   
John Embery 32  Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Head  Wolverhampton  Staffordshire   
Eliza Rolph 81  Bilston, Staffordshire, England Mother-in-law  Wolverhampton 

(on 1891 Eliza is listed as just 'Ralph' - no first name, aged 68) also they had a daughter Emma Embery in '91 aged 5mths on census. I suppose she must have died.

If you two already know this then I'll stop waffling, just thought I'd put my ideas in.