Gloucester Record Office look up please

[AngelaR]

Hi willowwah

I think we can be quite encouraged about Benjamin as we're narrowing things down. I'm quite cross about there being a gap in the burial records for Stroud St Lawrence as finding Benjamin's burial would be a great pointer to finding his birth! If he was baptised in Stroud after about 1775 (and unless he married relatively late there's a good chance!) then the baptism records should not only show his father and mother but also his mother's father. Stroud records are very unusual in that respect 

What I would suggest is making a specific post asking for a lookup for Benjamin's burial between say 1818 and 1825 to be on the safe side, at either Stroud St Lawrence or Bisley ( since John was born there, they might have been living there before) if we can get an approximate age off that, then I'm happy to look for Benjamin's baptism at the library next week.

About William - I didn't see any sign of him at all, but I'll recheck when I go back to the library - also to have another look for Caroline and Emma. I noticed that Caroline appears in the 1851 census, but not Emma or Ann, and there are a lot of Ann Ireland deaths on the GRO index between 1841 and 1851 that could be her - also a couple of Emmas. I'll check burials for them as the library does have the later ones.

If you get any success on Benjamin's burial, let me know and I'll go back to the library!

Best wishes

Angela

[willowwah]

after a long delay

my fathers health deteriated and i took as much time as I could to support him and keep him living at home, sadly he passed away recently.

He thoroughly enjoyed my researching the family tree.

anyway now i am back, I'm still searching for Benjamin senior
in the IGI I have found

Event(s):
Benjamin Ireland

 Birth:  About 1788   Of, Stroud, Gloucester, England
 
 Burial:  20 FEB 1820   Stroud, Gloucester, England

Spouse:  Mrs. Ann Ireland 

this could be my Benjamin !

also this was there
 
Event(s):
Benjamin Ireland
Birth:   1786
   
Christening:   9 Apr 1786
Bisley, , Gloucestershire, England

Parents:
 Father:  Samuel IRELAND (AFN: 2032-8C9) 
 Mother:  Hester ARUNDELL (AFN: 2032-8B3)   
   

also Arranroots found this entry for me a while ago

1811 IRELAND Benjamin C P47 OV/5/4/2/26 sawyer overseers

Bastardy Order

Sarah LAWRENCE delivered of a female bastard child on 27 Nov and Benjamin IRELAND sawyer adjudged father

also

Hester IRELAND delivered of a female bastard child on 15 January and William LAWRENCE of Bisley shopkeeper adjudged father

(Interesting coincidence of names!  Both these records refer to births in Bisley or vicinity)

kind regards, Arranroots


Am I just grasping at straws.... or would anyone else think I might have broke through my brickwall?

could the Benjamin whos birth and death is listed above be my Benjamin?  and is it most likely that he also had an illegitimate child, and I am also thinking that as his mother is called Hester there is a fair chance he would also have a sister called Hester


peoples thoughts on the above would be appreciated...and any views on how i can confirm these liinks

[AngelaR]

Hi Willowwah

Welcome back! I'm really sorry about your father  It was great you were able to be there for him though.....

I think you may well have got through your brick wall. We know that Benjamin and Ann lived in Stroud, so that would fit the burial very nicely. since we also know (I think?) that there was a Bisley connection in Benjamin's early life, that would match a treat too.

However, looking at the IGI these entries are all 'submitted' ones, so definitely need checking. I'm going to Gloucester Record Office today, so if I've got time I'll check them for you.

Best wishes

Angela

[willowwah]

Thanks

any help is very much appreciated, i have been going through the IGI cross referencing people and may have moved on further.  when i was last in the Glos R O I did look through Bisley baptisms briefly, and after cross referencing again some of these confirm a few findings

if i am on the right track, Benjamin's father was indeed Samuel and mother was Hester Arundel

Children of SAMUEL IRELAND and HESTER ARUNDEL are:
   i.   SAMUEL ARUNDEL, b. Abt. 1777, Bisley. cant confirm this one till i visit  the record office
   ii.   JOHN ARUNDEL, b. Abt. 1778, Bisley.
or this one



   iii.   MARY IRELAND, b. Abt. 1779, Bisley.
   iv.   ANN IRELAND, b. Abt. 1781, Bisley.
   v.   JOSEPH IRELAND, b. Abt. 1784, Bisley.
   vi.   BENJAMIN IRELAND, b. Abt. 1786, Bisley; d. Bet. 1819 - 1824. my boy !!
   vii.   ROBERT ARUNDEL IRELAND, b. Abt. 1788, Bisley.
   viii.   HESTER IRELAND, b. Abt. 1795, Bisley.
   ix.   WILLIAM IRELAND, b. Abt. 1795, Bisley.
   x.   JOHN IRELAND, b. Abt. 1798, Bisley.
   xi.   ELIZA IRELAND, b. Abt. 1800, Bisley.
   xii.   JANE IRELAND, b. Abt. 1778, Bisley.


if i am on the right track Samuels father is  samuel again

Children of SAMUEL IRELAND
2.   i.   RICHARD IRELAND, b. Abt. 16 Nov 1749, Bisley.
   ii.   HARRY/HENRY? IRELAND, b. Abt. 15 Jan 1752, Bisley.
3.   iii.   SAMUEL IRELAND, b. Abt. 17 Feb 1758, Bisley.
   there may even be more


I do hope I am pushing back correctly, I beleive that Samuel snr's father could be a Richard.

Oh how i wish i lived in Glos to have the time to sort this

Thanks again for all offers, i should be there on the 13th of Jan for 2 hours when they open then i am off to  the forest for a Local history talk on living in the FoD 1900-1940 which is when my dad and his parents and there parents lived there

[willowwah]

just as an idea, how close in proximaty are the following places

Stroud, Strouds hill and Bisley........  ??

[AngelaR]

Hi Willowah

Have just been to the record office and double checked some of the IGI entries. What I found from the Bisley parish records was -

Baptisms for children of Samuel Ireland (no wife mentioned in the baptisms for anybody , so the IGI has made an assumption here )

Jane 01 Mar 1778
Mary 07 Nov 1779
Ann 07 Oct 1781
Joseph 01 Feb 1784
Benjamin 09 Apr 1786
Robert Arundel 25 Dec 1788
Sarah 25 Apr 1791
William & Hester 25 Dec 1795
John 09 Apr 1798
Eliza 21 Sep 1800

Also confirmed Samuel Ireland and Hester Arundel's marriage 03 Nov 1777. Both parties signed with an X, although the witnesses (Samuel Harmer and Richard Baker) were literate. The second witness is almost certainly a churchwarden or something like that since he witnessed most marriages! The banns were read on Aug 31, Sep 7 and Sep 14.

Going through the baptisms, there were 3 other couples and one single person with the name Ireland having babies at that time. None of them had a Benjamin(!). They were Richard, Henry, Thomas and Anne. I found the marriage for Richard -
Richard Ireland - Betty Blainch married by licence 17 Sep 1775, witnesses James Pegler and Richard Baker. The groom was the only one to sign with an X.

I also double checked the burial of Benjamin Ireland at Sroud and it just gave the date 20 Feb 1820, his address of Strouds Hill (which matches with his childrens' baptism records) and his age of 32.

In answer to your question about distances, Bisley is 4 miles from Stroud and the road passes through what I presume would have been known as Stroud's Hill

Hope this helps

Best wishes

Angela

[willowwah]

Hi Angela

THANKyou so much!!

This is so good of you, some extra little bit i'd not quite got, this is saving me some  time indeed

I have learnt not to trust IGI and use  it as a guide to help me with dates to find  the real info

can you confirm the Richard and Betty marriage is Bisley?   the surname of the witness Pegler is also the name i beleive of Richard and Samuels mother Jane Peglar which confirms this marriage has to be their Richard

[AngelaR]

Glad it was useful!

Yes, the Richard and Betty marriage was definitely Bisley. I'm really glad things seem to be coming together a bit better now. Like you, I find the IGI a really useful starting point but definitely NOT to be trusted without checking 

I've been doing some transcriptions for FreeReg, which should, in time, be a usefull alternative source of parish records to IGI. It all helps!

I don't know when I'm next going to the Record Office but I'll PM you before I go in case there are particular things I can check while I'm there

Best wishes

Angela

[willowwah]

Thank you I'd appreciate that PM ,sometimes you get the info and just need one name, one link to help you move on further, but are too far away to do it yourself, sadly i wish dad had lasted just a few more weeks to see how further back I have now got to.

Thank you for confirming the Richard at Bisley info

If ever you need anything from Lincolnshire let me know