Thomas Burberry Ifield Sussex - Eliza Smith ?

[wen55]

Hi

I am actually looking for an ELIZA SMITH of whom I have no details, apart from the fact that she was the mother of twin boys.

THOMAS MOSES SMITH BURBERRY 1st December 1856 Edmonton Middlesex London (my greatgrandfather)
ALBERT AUGUSTUS BURBERRY 1st December 1856 Edmonton  Middlesex London

Sadly Albert died on the 13th December and his death was registered as Albert Smith.

I have no trace of ELIZA SMITH in any Census whatsoever, and THOMAS MOSES SMITH BURBERRY does not turn up until the 1891 Census living at 57 High Street Wandsworth.

I believe greatgreatgrandfather THOMAS BURBERRY was born in Ifield and possibly ended up in Hackney, London.

As I say it is actually ELIZA SMITH for whom I am looking.

All help greatly appreciated.

[Koromo]

Hi

If the deceased twin is registered as a Smith, is it reasonable to assume that the surviving twin was known as Thomas Smith which is how he appears on the 1891 census?

On the 1861 census, there are four Thomas Smiths born 1856 +/-5 in the Edmonton district. Three of those do not have a mother called Eliza and are born 1852, 1853 or 1860.. The fourth one, born 1857, is living with his grandparents:

1861  RG9/799/63/2
High Road, Enfield, Middlesex (Edmonton Registration Dist.)
Thomas Smith, head, 58, Ag Lab, b. Berkshire
Maria Smith, wife, 60, b. Essex
William Smith, grandson, 10, scholar, b. Enfield, Middlesex
Thomas Smith, grandson, 4, scholar, b. Enfield
Amelia Smith, grand dau, 2, b. Enfield

1851  HO107/1703/480/30
Turkey St, Enfield, Middlesex
Thomas Smith, head, 46, labourer, b. Ashbury, Berkshire
Maria Smith, wife, 50, b. Roydon, Essex
George Smith, son in law, mar, 28, labourer, b. Enfield, Middlesex
Sarah Smith, dau, mar, 22, b. Ashbury, Berkshire
Eliza Smith, dau, unmar, 15, b. Enfield
Maria Smith, dau, 13, b. Enfield
William Smith, son, 11, b. Enfield
Authen? Smith, son, 3, b. Enfield
Jerne? Smith, gran dau, 1 mth, b. Enfield

Of course, all this can only be regarded as the faintest possibility!!!

Cheers
Koromo

[sillgen]

Hi
Have you got the birth certificates for the boys?    That should make it clearer as to whether Eliza was married at the time.  It seems odd thay they have reverted to Smith.  If you can tell us the address and occupation of their father, Thomas Burberry,  then someone might find him and Eliza in the census.   Have you looked for a marriage?   That will give her father's name and may confirm the census details Koromo has given you.  What makes you think Thomas is from Ifield?
Andrea

[Koromo]

Hi Wen

Thanks for your PM.  Amelia as a marriage witness sounds good, doesn't it?

In what district and year did Thomas get married? Let me check on how many Amelia Thomases there were just in case there were a lot of them and it's all a horrible coincidence?


Koromo

[wen55]

Hello again

Thomas Moses S Burberry married Elizabeth Grose

September 21st 1879

Parish of St Giles.

[wen55]

Hello Sillgen and Koromo

The witness is "AMELIA SMITH" on the marriage certificate of son THOMAS MOSES SMITH BURBERRY.

Problem is that with the Burberry side of the matters I think that in the 1861 Census there is an "Amelia Burberry" living with Elizabeth Turner and John Turner in Sussex. Elizabeth Turner being the second married name of Elizabeth Burberry (nee Smith) who married James Burberry and Thomas Smith Burberry (father of the twins) was the son of Elizabeth Burberry and James Burberry.

On the Middlesex board there are some Census results have been posted re my query on Eliza Smith.

Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[wen55]

Hi again

Another problem is that the twins were registered as Burberry in the 1856 4th Qtr.

Then when the death was registered at the same time for ALBERT AUGUSTUS he was named as "SMITH" in the deaths for the same Qtr.

Hope this is of some help to you.

[Koromo]

Hi Wen

I am totally confused now!

Elizabeth Smith married James Burberry and had a son called

Thomas Smith Burberry. She later married John Turner.

Thomas Smith Burberry married an Eliza Smith (not to be confused with the above).
They had twins named Thomas Moses Smith Burberry/Smith and Albert Augustus Burberry/Smith

Thomas Moses Smith Burberry/Smith married Elizabeth Grose. One of the witnesses is Amelia Smith.[/list]

You say there is an Amelia Burberry is living with John and Elizabeth Turner in Sussex in 1861. Do you have the census reference number for that? Or, do you have the birth date/place for Elizabeth Smith/Burberry/Turner? There are 60 Elizabeth Turners (and no Amelia Burberrys) that I can see living in Sussex at that time which makes it difficult to try to trace Amelia Smith/Burberry.


K.

[sillgen]

I am glad I am not the only one who thought this was getting a bit much for my tiny brain to cope with!
Andrea