Clezy, Clezie connections

[clazey]

Schoolmaster connections are interesting...both John Oswald Clazey and James before they became involved with Coal and Land Sale operations w/ Lord Londonderry  were both schoolmasters.  Jamaes was at Shiny Row in the 1851 Census at the school opened by Lord Londonderry. John was at the National School.  Their nephew, James Oswald Clazey, born in the US, was at Durham College in 1871 Census and living with his grandmother, Isabelle and aunt and uncle, James and Ellen.  He became a school master as did at least two of his daughters...skip a couple of generations...and I am a school teacher.  My nephew is a school teacher...my youngest daughter is going to be a school teacher...

Found another "stray"...Janet Clazy married to John Mickle  12/25/1814, Cranshaws.  Birth, about 1794, Caithness.  Death about 1871, Linlinthgow, West Lothian

Thomas Clasie, christening 27 November 1673, Berwick Upon Tweed. Father:  William Clasie

Thomas Clasey, christening 19 April 1691, Berwick Upon Tweed. Father:  William Clasey.

Mary Clasey married Andrew Nickson 2 December 1701, Berwick Upon Tweed.

Sharon

 

[flashMinor]

The school connections are interesting indeed, clazey. I've also found school teachers among the Steele family into which John Gordon married. It is his line I am trying to trace, and in its more recent form of my grandfather's generation included three lecturers or teachers of adults that I know of. My father has been a visiting lecturer, my deceased aunt was a teacher, my first cousin (through the same line) is training to be a school teacher, and I worked as a tutor while I was studying.

[clazey]

Amazing how we "follow" professions oftentimes before we even know what our ancestors did for a living!  There is a Clazey line in Maryland, US and years ago when I contacted one...the first thing he asked me was if I live near the water!! Amazingly, I always have.  Only tried to live once in a landlocked state and couldn't stand it!  He pronounced me a true Clazey...and to date...have not found a one here in the US who doesn't live near either a Great Lake or the ocean.

Sharon

[flashMinor]

Hi anndra. I have been looking for a family named Shirilaw in Berwickshire and have tried some wild card searching which did not yield Shirilaw results but did produce some Skugalls and Skugells in Berwickshire between about 1640 and 1700. I wondered if they might assist your Scougall searching.

From Duns, Berwickshire, there are listings for:

Margrat Skugell b. or c. 13/03/1640 to Robert Skugell and Margrat Purves;
George Skugell b. or c. 28/09/1654 to George Skugell and Jeane Gambell;
Johne Skugell   4/04/1658 George Skugell and Ellspeth Thomsone; and
William Skugall b. or c. 17/06/1678 to George Skugall and Agnes Heastie.

My search was confined to those years only - no doubt there are more.

All the best,

Anne

[T. Michael Sommers]

John Clasey, transported 1685 to Barbados for waging war against King James.  Is this perhaps the John you cannot find?
No, but this is very, very interesting and not something I have come across. Do you have any more details?
I

From the date I would presume he took part in Monmouth's rebellion.  Perhaps he escaped with Captain Blood and became a pirate.  Or not.

[T. Michael Sommers]

I think that the George married to Margaret Brack was the eldest son of William and Isabel Thomson but haven't been able to find anything about them in the UK so mabe they are the ones in Baltimore.

George and Margaret definitely went to Baltimore.   Their descendants, at least those I have so far found, are here:

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=tms2&id=I1125

Why do you think George is the son of William and Isabel Thomson, as opposed to being him being one of the other Georges born at about that time?  George is my gggg-grandfather, and I would very much like to pin him down.

[anndra]

The four sons of George Clazy b.c.1730, m.Agnes Middlemist b.c.1730 are
1. William b.1753, Coldstream.
2. John b.1755, Coldstream.
3. James b.1760, Coldstream.
4. George b. 1765, Mordington.

1. William m.Isabella Thomson c.1784 - issue found - 7 (5boys, 2girls) eldest son
1.1 George b.1786, Hutton; probably m.Margaret Brack 1812, Bunkle & Preston.

2. John m.Margaret Palen 1777, Hutton - all issue known to have emigrated to Australia (see previous posts by others)

3. James m.Helen Ker 1786, Hutton/Chirnside - issue found - 9 (5boys, 4 girls) - eldest son
3.1 George b.1787, Hutton; m. Jean Lockie c.1812 - issue found - 8 (2boys, 6girls) - eldest son
3.1.1 James b.1816, Edrom (named after paternal grandfather which follows the convention of that time, as does the names of the rest of the children)

4. George m.Agnes Alexander 1793 Foulden - issue found - 6 (3boys, 3girls) eldest son
4.1 George b.1793, Foulden; m.Rabina Bell 1820 Kelso - issue found - 5 (1boy, 4girls) -only son
4.1.1 George b.1824, Eccles (named after paternal grandfather etc. etc.)

I have found no other Georges registered in that period in Berwickshire, Roxburghshire, or indeed anywhere else in Scotland: nor are there any 'orphans' which would suggest another line. [I have time lined all recorded Clazy (and associated spellings) births,marriages and deaths recorded in Scotland.]

This would therefore point to George, son of William and Isabella Thomson, being married to Margaret Brack.
Although their children do not follow the naming convention of the time entirely, the first female child, Agnes, is named after the maternal grandmother, the second female child, Isabella, is named after the paternal grandmother, and the third female child, Margaret, is named after the mother - all as was the convention of the time. The first male child is George, named after the maternal grandfather (and/or father), the second is un-named, and the third is William - not as the convention, although the William is significant. Perhaps there was an earlier William who did not survive, between Agnes and George?
I think the female line names, the birth locations of George and Margaret, and the lack of other possibilities clinches it anyway, notwithstanding that there were many unrecorded births etc..

I have lots of records of the Clazy family and if there is anything particular you would like a copy of please drop me an e-mail.

[anndra]

'evening flashMinor (at least it is here in God's Country)
Many thanks for the info on the Skugells; I will add it to my time line. There are lots of them about but no Katharins in the Borders unfortunately. There are lots of Katharins in the Aberdeen area for some obscure reason....maybe one of them had a bike!

I recently turned up a Christina Hersie Gilkie Kerr (honest!) in my database, married to James Clazie. Her death record gives her parents as James Kerr, Farm Servant, and Mary Lawson: she died at Chalkie Law, Duns, on 13/03/1928 age 87: recorded by her son-in-law George Cockburn.
James Clazie 1831-1911 was the son of Thomas Clazie 1808-1878, and Agnes/Ann Tully(ie) 1804 to 1879. He died at Chirnside 09/08/1911, as recorded by his son James Thomas Clazie.
Thomas Clazie's parents were James Clazie and Helen Ker. Could this be the Kerr/Clazie tie in you are looking for?

On another tack, your search for Shirilaws, my maternal-maternal-paternal line (Dickson) originated in the Coldingham area. There were a family of Shirilaws there in the 1690s: parents  Patrick Shirilaw and Agnes Lockart; children, Christian b.16/03/1695; William b.20/12/1696; Mary b.18/12/1698; David b.19/01/1701; Joseph b.01/08/1703; Patrick b.01/06/1707. Any help? Also: Shirlaw Pike is a hill in the Cheviots in Northumberland. Maybe your Shirilaws were from south of the border?

[T. Michael Sommers]

The four sons of George Clazy b.c.1730, m.Agnes Middlemist b.c.1730 are
1. William b.1753, Coldstream.
2. John b.1755, Coldstream.
3. James b.1760, Coldstream.
4. George b. 1765, Mordington.

1. William m.Isabella Thomson c.1784 - issue found - 7 (5boys, 2girls) eldest son
1.1 George b.1786, Hutton; probably m.Margaret Brack 1812, Bunkle & Preston.

...

3. James m.Helen Ker 1786, Hutton/Chirnside - issue found - 9 (5boys, 4 girls) - eldest son
3.1 George b.1787, Hutton; m. Jean Lockie c.1812 - issue found - 8 (2boys, 6girls) - eldest son

...

This would therefore point to George, son of William and Isabella Thomson, being married to Margaret Brack.
Although their children do not follow the naming convention of the time entirely, the first female child, Agnes, is named after the maternal grandmother, the second female child, Isabella, is named after the paternal grandmother, and the third female child, Margaret, is named after the mother - all as was the convention of the time. The first male child is George, named after the maternal grandfather (and/or father), the second is un-named, and the third is William - not as the convention, although the William is significant.

That sounds plausible, more than  plausible, but I am still curious as to why you conclude that George son of William married Margaret and George son of James married Helen, and not the other way around.  I don't doubt you, I'd just like to know your reasoning.

Perhaps there was an earlier William who did not survive, between Agnes and George?

Quite possibly; I am sure there are children missing.

I think the female line names, the birth locations of George and Margaret, and the lack of other possibilities clinches it anyway, notwithstanding that there were many unrecorded births etc..

I guess this answers my question above.  I need to do more work on all these families; I don't have half the information you have here.

I have lots of records of the Clazy family and if there is anything particular you would like a copy of please drop me an e-mail.

Thanks, I'd appreciate that.  I have George and Margaret's marriage record, but not much else.  My email is (*).

For anyone who is interested, I have put a book containing what I have so far on the Baltimore Clazeys here:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tms2/clazey-book.pdf

Please consider this a draft only, both editorially and genealogically.  However, it still might be useful to someone.

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