Need help finding Alice Wotton c 1863

[casalguidi]

Hi Jumper

Yes, "under age" or "minor" on marriage would mean under 21.  I'm not sure about the differing trades but they weren't too consistent with their ages so I wouldn't have thought it that unusal for somebody with a "trade" to be described as a labourer at times - particularly if they weren't a master employing others.  Not sure about the French polishing though - maybe you could delve to see if there could be a link occupation wise

Casalguidi

[Jumper]

Hello Casalguidi, Thanks for all your help, Can you tell me what to key in to find Henry Wotton in the 1891 census, kind regards Jumper

[Valda]

1891 census RG12 255 folio 175
Shoreditch Workhouse Shoreditch  London 
Henry Wootton 64 Shoreditch, London, Pauper Widower Cooper

Henry and Sarah's children might still have their births registered in some other surname for various reasons. For instance their parents did not marry so the births were registered in their mother's surname. Or Henry was illegitimate so though he was known as Wootton (his father's name) and appearing on censuses as Wootton, all legal events were registered in his mother's maiden name. The latter I have examples of, but ususally when the person's parents marry after their birth (such illegiitmate children were not subsequently made legitimate by their parents later marriage until 1927). It is just unfortunate that FreeBMD has poor coverage for the year 1863 as Alice has a distinctive series of first names which it would be possible to search on alone to see whether there might be such a possible registration in another surname.

1901 census RG13 281 folio 173
Shoreditch Workhouse Shoreditch St Leonard  London 
Henry Wootton 74 City of London, Pauper Widower Cooper

Regards

Valda

[gjil]

I must also thankyou all for the response on this post as I'm also a relative of Alice Maud Mary Wotton, she was my gggrandmother. Jumper and I have recently had contact for the first time. Her father was the brother of my ggrandmother, Rose Jane Engalnd nee Whitmore. Thanks to Rootschat that I have found a lot of information on the Whitmores.


 gjil

[Jumper]

Hello Valda, Thank you for the info on 1891 census, I did find on Ancestry.com a birth registered in the name of ? Alice Maud Mary(question mark in place of surname) Sept 1862 Whitechapel. On rootsweb I found the entry on page 407 at the end of the listing for the surname "Guy". I took all details to the FRC, they checked the birth ledger, and then phoned Stockport and had them check the certificate. The surname is "Guyatt" it seems unusual that a person with the surname of Guyatt would give their daughter 3 common East End christian names, perhaps I should buy the cert:
A big thank you to everyone who has helped in my search, kind regards, Jumper

[Valda]

The Guyatt birth certificate would only be worth it if you could track any of the other children
Henry circa 1857 Islington
James circa 1859 Islington
Sarah circa 1860 Shoreditch
Alice Maud Mary circa 1863 Shoreditch
Charles circa 1867 Shoreditch
Arthur circa 1869 Shoreditch
James circa 1871 Shoreditch
Louisa circa 1874 Shoreditch
Mary circa 1877 Shoreditch
having their births registered as Guyatt. Otherwise it is just a coincidence. FreeBMD produce coverage charts to show which years and which quarters they have better coverage of

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/progress.shtml

Ancestry's version of FreeBMD is never as up to date as the FreeBMD website so coverage is not so good.

I have tried to trace any of Alice's siblings after 1881 to try and establish their names.

1891 census RG12 250 folio 129
1a Flemming Terrace Shoreditch
Charles Wotten 24 Hoxton, London,  Head  Married Brush maker
Rebecca Wotten 20 Hoxton, London,  Wife  Married
Mary A Wotten 14 Hoxton, London, Sister  Brush drawer

William Charles Wotton married Rebecca Clark in Bethnal Green in the December quarter of 1890 Volume 1c page 597

1901 census RG13 277 folio 148
43 Wilmer Gardens Shoreditch  London   
Charles W Wotton 37  Hoxton Head Married Brush? Finisher
Rebeca Wotton 32  Hoxton Wife  Married
Eliza Wotton 9  Kingsland Daughter 
Willm C Wotton 7  Hoxton Son
James E Wotton 5 Hoxton Son 
Leatha? E Wotton 2  Hoxton Daughter 
Henry A Wotton 10  Hoxton Son 

1901 census RG13 277 folio 157
12 Wilmer Gardens Shoreditch  London   
James E Wotton 30  Haggerstone Head Married Brushmaker
Rose C Wotton 32  Islington Wife Married
James E Wotton 14    Son   

I can't find a marriage of a James to a Rose and 'their' son looks a bit old for James senior's son. There is a marriage of an Edwin James Wotton in Shoreditch in 1903, but not to a Rose.

There is an Arthur Wotton a toothbrush maker lodging in Shoreditch (53 St John's Road) on the 1891 census aged 20 RG12 249 folio 59. I can't find him in 1901.

Regards

Valda

[gjil]

Valda,

I must also thankyou for that info.
Alice wotton married James whitmore in 1881 and in the 1901 census they are living in wilmer gardens.


 gjil

[Jumper]

Valda, I have been through all the birth registers at FRC for the years 1860 - 1880 looking at names Wattan Wetton Witton Wotton Wutton and all combinations with no luck, it is possible that they were not registered as it was not compulsory and there was no financial gain to be had, I have been to the LMA and checked through umpteen fiches for baptisms, have checked Freebmd and Familysearch without success.
I am sure you are on the right track with 1901 census Charles Wotton at 43 Wilmer Gardens.  Alice and her husband James Whitmore were living at 34 Wilmer Gardens with their children including my father George Whitmore born 1894. James could also be right as the James Jnr could be Rose's son by a previous marriage. Thank you so much for your help and invaluable information, kind regards Jumper

[Valda]

Jumper
Birth registration was compulsory but there were no financial penalities for not registering children until 1875.
I doubt any of the children were registered as Wotton/Wootton or any mispelling of the surname. For them to have been registered it would be in a completely different surname.

I have examples of families on censuses who appear in one surname - the surname they were known by in their everyday life but register their childrens births in another. The ususal reason for this was illegitimacy. Ususally the everyday surname eventually replaces the other surname.
However if you don't know what the other surname was you cannot find the families either in civil events or censuses. I searched high and low through censuses in Chesham Buckinghamshire till I finally worked out the family I was searching for in one surname were actually appearing in the censuses under a completely different surname.

This may of course not be the case with the Wotton family. However though their births may not have been registered, what about Henry's missing marriage (if it isn't the 1856 marriage) and most crucially perhaps, as many as three of Henry's and Sarah 's childrens' deaths seem to be unaccounted for (though FreeBMD does not have complete coverage for deaths 1861-1871).

Regards

Valda