Thomas Sydney Lloyd b Lytham 1883

[Tony25]

Dave
Absolutely right. Question is where was Thomas Henry m 1882 actually born and who were his parents?
Regards
Tony

[Dave Francis]

Here's a possibility - you've probably considered it already.

Was Thomas Henry illegitimate and invented a father for the sake of respectability?
Did he use the middle name "Henry" as an affectation?

He was recorded as age 29 in the 1881 Census, so is this him in earlier life ??

1871 Severn Stoke, Worcestershire
RG10/3057 folio 51 page 13
"Sandford"
Richard Lloyd, head, widower, 83, ag lab, Cradley Hereford
Thomas Lloyd, grandson, unmar, 19, ag lab, Severn Stoke Wor'shire
Mary Bubb, daur, mar, 44, Severn Stoke Wor'shire
Matilda Bubb, grandaur, unmar, 16, Pirton(?) Wor'shire
next door..
Richard Lloyd, head, mar, 26, ag laborer, Severn Stoke Wor'shire
Mary Ann Lloyd, wife, mar, 23, Badsey Wor'shire
Minnie Sue Lloyd, daur, 2, Severn Stoke Wor'shire

1861 Severn Stoke, Worcestershire
RG9/2099 folio 48 page 9
"Clifton"
Richard Lloyd, head, mar, 74, ag lab, Bosbury Herefordshire
Christiana Lloyd, wife, mar, 65, Sandford Worcestershire
Elizabeth Lloyd, daur, unm, 40, Sandford Worcestershire
Christiana Lloyd, granddaur, 16, Sandford Worcestershire
Thomas Lloyd, grandson, 10, Sandford Worcestershire

1851 Severn Stoke, Worcestershire
HO107/2043 folio 559 page 10
"Sandford"
Richard Lloyd, head, mar, 60, ag lab, Bosbury Worcester
Hannah Lloyd, wife, 57, mar, Severn Stoke Worcester*
Elizabeth Lloyd, daur, unm, 31(?), ag lab, Severn Stoke Worcester
Ann Lloyd, daur, unm, 21(?), servant, Severn Stoke Worcester
Richard Lloyd, grandson, 6, scholar, Severn Stoke Worcester
Hannah Lloyd, granddaur, 6, scholar, Severn Stoke Worcester
Thomas Lloyd, grandson, 10m, Severn Stoke Worcester

*Hannah = short for Christiana

1841 Severn Stoke, Worcestershire
HO107/1206/3 folio 6 page 4
"Upper Sandford"
Richard Lloyd, 50, ag lab
Christiana Lloyd, 45
John Lloyd, 20, ag lab
Elizabeth Lloyd, 20
Mary Lloyd, 15
All recorded as born in Worcestershire

AND ...
Thomas LLOYD
chr 04 June 1850 Severn Stoke, Worcester
Mother: Anne LLOYD
Father not named!
[IGI]

[Tony25]

Dave
There is a significant possiblility that he may have been illegitimate. I will look at your suggestions in as much depth as I can. Significantly I can't readily find these Thomas Lloyds in the 1881 census in Worcestershire so I can't prove they are not my Thomas Henry.
Thankyou. I'm impressed by your ability to find an illegitimate Thomas Henry. Do you have a technique for searching or did you just look at a lot of records till you came across an uimarried mother?
I'll get back to you in a day or two.
Tony

[Tony25]

Dave
If you Look up Thomas Loyd in the 1881 census he is shown as a 29 yr old agricultural labourer living n Severn Stoke with his wife Caroline and 4 children. I strongly suspect that this is the same Thomas Lloyd that you identified in the 1851,61 and 71 censuses and not my man who is shown as living in Lytham also as Thomas Loyd.
Tony

[Dave Francis]

Hi Tony

Yes - I think you might be right.
Drat and double drat!

Ho hum, back to the drawing board.   

Dave

[Jennie B]

Hi,

Thomas Henry Lloyd worked at Fair Lawn, Lytham with my ggfather Francis Richard Wright!

It is very possible that they were life long friends.

Francis married Jane Carlisle in Dec 1881 at St. Cuthbert’s Church, Lytham.
Jane worked in Blackburn April 1881, by December she was in domestic service in Lytham – a stone’s throw from Kate Edna SPRING.
Francis & Jane had two sons born Lytham before they moved around 1890.
Francis b1883 – (as Thomas Sydney)
George b1886 – (as Arthur)

After Jane’s death Francis Snr returned to Lytham and spent the rest of his days there.
George also returned to Lytham.

Were these old pals/colleagues reunited? 

However, I have an old photo, which I have always presumed was taken c 1881 at the stables, Fair Lawn – If so, it is very possible that Thomas Lloyd is one of the seven men in the photograph!

Perhaps you would like a copy once I have fathomed out how to send it?

Jennie B
 

[Tony25]

Jennie
Thank you so much for replying. Yes, Francis Wright was indeed a groom at Thomas Fildes house "Fairlawn" at the same time as my great grand father Thomas Henry Lloyd. I also append a photograph withan image of Thomas Henry, Kate Edna and the infant Thomas Sydney taken at Fairlawn House. Perhaps Francis is also on the photo?
If you should wish to communicate off line, my e mail address is tony.lloyd@dsl.pipex.com
Thomas Henry is a great mystery to me. He is supposed to have been born in Worcester but all of my searches have failed to find any convincing evidence of his birth in those parts.
Hoping to hear from you.
Tony Lloyd

[Jennie B]

Hi Tony

Thank You for your reply. What a wonderful photo, I wonder what the occasion was? 
Do you have any more info?  Who is the other child?

Not knowing anything about your photo I would have said that that your Kate was the Governess sat next to the Lady of the Household with her children either side.  The female next to Thomas is facing him as though they have a connection and they appear slightly detached from the group.

I am not 100%, but the couple centre back could be my ggparents Jane Elizabeth Carlisle and Francis Richard Wright, if the photo is c.1885 they would be ages 29 and 30.   I am judging their likeness by much later photos of the pair.  Jane has very distinctive facial features and centre pointed hairline.

Thomas Henry is definitely in my photo, he is quite a handsome fellow with very distinctive features, no mistaking him! 

I have been searching more old photos looking for an image of Thomas Henry, nothing as yet.

The photo I do have was taken by Isaac Wilde, Artist, Talbot Road, Blackpool and is approximately 2½ x 3½ in size.  Unfortunately the only information I have regarding its content is that Francis is the chap on the far right.

Hopefully, I have attached my photo for your perusal; I look forward to any comments or information and perhaps this may throw up some new leads for either of us!

Kind Regards  Jennie B 

[Tony25]

Jennie
Many thanks. I presume that you mean that the chap on the left in your photo is Thomas Henry. Regarding the couple at the back, my best guess is that the man at the back is the same as the man who is second left on your photo but is is just a guess. I could send you a higher resolution copy if I could e mail you directly.
You raise an interesting point about the identification of the characters in my photo. As it was my father that had identified his grandfather and grandmother, I must assume that he was probably right but when I visit him next I will try to double check this with him. He will be 95 in 6 days time! Kate by the way was a nurse not a governess
I doubt if he will be able to remember Francis but I will check that out as well.
I know little else about the photo and I date it by reference to the age of my grandfather Thomas Sydney b 18 Feb 1883. The photographer was T Bowen of 64 Clifton Street Lytham.
Kate was working elsewhere in 1881 at Westwood, the home of Thomas Fair, the agent for the Lytham Hall Estate.
Thomas and Kate had married on 24 April 1882 at St Cuthberts with the witnesses being Thomas and Elizabeth Bennett.
If you have a photo of Francis and Jane fom the 1920's / 30s it might jog my dad's memory.
I tried looking up Francis and George in the 1924 Lytham Directory but to no avail http://www.lytham-online.co.uk/Local%20History/Directories/1924%20Directory/Lytham_St.Annes_Directory_1924_W.htm
Best Regards