Thomas Sydney Lloyd b Lytham 1883

[Tony25]

My grandfather Thomas Sydney Lloyd was born in Lytham Lancashire To Thomas Henry Lloyd and Kate Edna Spring in 1883. He emigrated to South Africa and married Elizabeth Human in 1907 in Roodeport. They had two sons ; my father Johannes Cornelius and his brother John William Henry. Elizabeth and the boys were shipped to the UK in 1913 but she died in 1914 in the Wesham workhouse having been abandoned by my grandfather. He subsequently remarried in East Africa and we believe he had two daughters and a son. One of the daughters may have been called Edna. The son may have died in London in about 1946.
Edna was working in Jinja in Uganda in 1946 at the Public Works Department. If anyone knows anything of this family I would much appreciate any information.

[Dave Francis]

Hi Tony

Welcome to RootChat!

What sort of information are you looking for?
Are you hoping to find descendants of your grandfather's brothers and sisters?
Or do you simply want to trace your family roots back as far as possible?

For example, I see that your great-grandparents were married in the Spring of 1882 -

Marriage Registration
Thomas LLOYD
Kate Edna SPRING
June quarter 1882
Fylde, vol 8e p1027

Dave

[Dave Francis]

I also note that Thomas senior was born in Worcester (not Lytham), that he was blind by 1901 (see below) and that Kate was born in Dover.

1901 Census - Lytham, Lancs
RG13/3966 folio 115 page 58
"28 West Cliff"
Thomas Lloyd, head, 46, tea agent, Worcester
Kate Lloyd, wife, 39, Dover Kent
Edna Lloyd, daur, 16, Lytham Lancs
Arthur Lloyd, son, 15, Lytham Lancs
Frederick Lloyd, 8, London
Robert Lloyd, 4, London

NB: Thomas Lloyd also recorded as "blind" in this Census

Birth Registration
Kate Edna SPRING
Sept quarter 1859
Dover, vol 2a page 701

[Tony25]

Dave
Thanks for your interest. I have assembled a comprehensive family tree for most branches of my parents ancestors and for my wifes. I guess I have identified just over 10,000 directly related relatives going back to the 1650s.
Where I am stuck is in identifying the descendents of my grandfathers second marriage in East Africa. This is not an area where Ancestry or the other search engines can really help me and I guess I have to rely on websites like this or Genes Reunited. Clearly record keeping in Uganda is unlikely to be of much use. I have already tried the Freemasons and ex pat sites re Uganda without success.

My other great blank is my great grandfather, Thomas Henry Lloyd, Thomas Sydneys father. He is supposed to have been born in Worcester in 1852 / 1855 (as your 1901 census search revealed) but there is no credible record in Worcester or it's environs of a Thomas Lloyd with a father called Thomas Henry whose occupation was a coachman in the censuses or the BMD records. We suspect he may have made up his past as, according to my father, he never spoke about his childhood.
Any suggestions would be most welcome.

[Dave Francis]

Hi Tony

Sorry, I can't help with finding descendants of your grandfather's second marriage - outside my sphere of expertise, I'm afraid.

Can't find your grandfather in the 1901 Census.  Can't find him or his family in 1891 either.  If Thomas Henry was a tea dealer, the family may have been out of the country at the time - possibly in East Africa?  Arthur was born about 1885 in Lytham and Frederick about 1892 in London, so the age gap and different locations may be significant.

Thomas Henry ought to have been listed in contemporary trade directories, so it might be checking here:
http://historicaldirectories.org/

I'll have a root around and see if I can turn up something.

Cheers
Dave

[Tony25]

Dave

Thanks

No I've never found the family on the 1891 census either. They were in London at the time but I've searched every combination I can without success. He was running a hackney carriage business. The profession of tea dealing was a rather grandiose term for breakong down a box of tea into retal portions. He was not a broker by any stretch of the imagination.

TH is hard to find on the 1881 census as well. He's down as Thomas Loyd (spelling mistake!). He's untraceable with any certainty in the 1861 and 1871 censuses.

I can't trace the birth of Robert or Fred in the BMD though I do havr a birth index reference for Walter in Kensington. that should give me an address if I was prepared to stump up £7 for the copy certificate!

The main issue, however is Thomas Henry's parentage and there I can make no progress at all.

[Dave Francis]

Well, I suppose the obvious thing to do would be to order a copy of Thomas and Kate's marriage certificate - if nothing else, it should confirm his whereabouts in 1882 AND provide his father's name and occupation.

Dave

[Tony25]

Dave
Thanks but I'd done that some time ago. He was in Lytham in 1882 (remember I have him on the 1881 census and you have already noted that the 1901 census shows the first three children as born in Lytham between 1883 and 1885). The marriage certificate shows his fathers name as Thomas Henry Lloyd and his occupation as Coachman. Needless to say his father is not a witness to the marriage.
I strongly suspect that he may have fabricated his background but I can't prove it.
Perhaps if I could selectively interrogate orphanages in the Worcester area it might throw up some possible leads. Who knows?

[Dave Francis]

Sorry Tony - perhaps I'm being dense here, so I just need to make sure I've not missed something.

Your grandfather Thomas Sydney Lloyd was born 1883 and was the son of Thomas Henry Lloyd and Kate Spring who were married in 1882.  Thomas Henry's father, according to the 1882 marriage certificate, was a coachman also called Thomas Henry Lloyd. Have I got this right?

Dave