Looking for info on Army units based in Ballincollig in 1866 & Harding ancestors

[Daisypetal]

Hi embryo,

Welcome to RootsChat

It's a long time since I've looked at this thread!

New information is now online so perhaps we will be able to fill in the gaps



Firstly a possible death for Margaret HARDING nee LONG,

Margarett HARDING
Death Date: 09 Apr 1868
Burial Date: 10 Apr 1868 
Burial Place: Cawnpore, Bengal, India 
Age: 28 


Her age would fit the 1840 baptism Mike A found (see reply 35 on this thread).


Regards,
Daisy

[embryo]

Hi Daisy,
Thank you so much for your reply. The information relating to Margaret Harding's death looks pretty certain to me and if correct,
is the resolution to a long, frustrating puzzle within my family! As you rightly state, the age, date and location would all appear to
fit. The remaining burning questions are, what happened to Eliza and Arthur Jnr. I know Arthur Jnr. appears on the 1881 census as in lodgings, in Wandsworth at the age of 15years. How and for heavens sake, why? I would be most grateful if you could give me some idea as to what the "new information now online" is and where it can be accessed.
As I stated in my initial post, I have Arthur Harding Snr.'s muster records up until his re-engagement (for 10 years 319 days!) and transfer to India dated 13 December 1876. His records conclude with the following statement: "There are no further Muster records for 8 Brigade, Royal Artillery in the Public Record Office for its period of service in India 1867-1877. There are no Muster records in the India Office Library. The most likely explanation is that they were left in India." This lends me to believe that Arthurs movements within India , will remain another frustration! Along with the muster records I have, are copies of Arthur's letters of recommendation from the Army. One of these letters is written by his then C.O., Major George Frederick Blackwood who was sadly killed in action in 1880, fighting the Ghazis during the 2nd Afghan War. This letter is signed off "G/3 Bgde RA, Murree. Punjab, 28th Sept. 1878." I wonder, could this be the Murrey Hills of my Grandmothers birth? The other letter is not quite so clear but under the signature, is written, "R.A. Rawal Pindi Div'n". Finally Daisy, it is interesting that in the April 1866-March 1867 muster list, the birth of Arthur Jnr. is noted i.e. "Born 9th May 1866, Ballincollig, Cork, Ireland. Father: Arthur Harding; Mother: Margaret Long. Source: Irish Registry Office via Mormon family record website." Why no mention of Eliza, I wonder?
Many thanks again for your interest,
embryo     

[Daisypetal]

Hi,

Glad to have helped

The new info I referred to was about new records being transcribed and/or digitised then added to existing and new websites, there are so many records online today compared to 2006 when I originally helped on this thread

I found Margaret's death, which definately wasn't there before, at familysearch,

https://familysearch.org/ 

Arthur Snr and Margaret's marriage is there as are the births of Arthur Jnr and Eliza.



I also found this marriage, which could be a mistranscription of YOUNG,

 
Marriage Date: 30 Nov 1872 
Marriage Place: Jullander, Bengal, India
Arthur HARDING
Groom's Birth Date: 1840 
Groom's Birthplace: 
Groom's Age: 32   
Father's Name: James HARDING
Bride's Name: Ellen GOONY 
Age: 25 
Father's Name: Henry MCGUIRE 


This would suggest that either Ellen was a widow or possibly her mother had remarried and Ellen took her step-father's name.


Unfortunately you can't see the original images so details could always be wrong, I always advise looking at the originals but I don't know where you would find these. Maybe you could find some help here,

http://www.coraweb.com.au/india.htm


I'm not used to using military records other than those available on FindMyPast and ancestry so I'm not sure about the muster rolls info.


If Margaret died in 1868 Arthur Snr would have been left with two small children age; 2 and 4, he didn't immediately remarry so I wonder if Arthur Jnr and Eliza were sent back to relatives in either England or Ireland?



Googling for information I found this website,

http://ballincollig.wordpress.com/military-barracks/soldiers-who-served-in-ballincollig/

Scroll down to find the story of Arthur HARDING, as it refers to "Arthur (my grandfather who was born in Ballincollig)" and contains alot of the info on this thread it might have been written by Mike A. There is a comment section at the bottom so you could ask who wrote the article and hopefully you will be contacted by a newly found relative

Daisy

[embryo]

Hi Daisy,
Many thanks for your post of 30th. I had at some stage seen the marriage info you quote, but had not been able to confirm that
Ellen Goony was the correct person. At present, Ellen could be Young or Goony. My mission now, is to try and firm up these facts, possibly as you suggested to Mike A, by viewing the birth certificate of any of the Harding children born in the UK. The Muster lists that I have, were obtained by one of my nephews and in conversation with him recently, he told me that he has obtained a copy of Arthur Harding Snr.'s Brigade movements in India. I await a copy in turn with keen anticipation! The web addresses that you kindly added look as though they may be fruitful and I shall be exploring them as soon as possible. The trouble is, the Olympics are taking their toll on my time! In the event that I find anything constructive from my searches, I shall of course, post my findings here.
Once again, many thanks for your support and interest.

embryo     

[embryo]

Hi Daisy,

As promised, I can now update you on recent developments. Firstly, I have received copies from my nephew, of the movements of G Battery, 8 Brigade from embarkation to India and some of their movements within India. The source is "Battery Records of the Royal Artillery, vol. 3 by M.E.S.Laws".
 
[E,F,G & H batteries, 8 Brigade R.A. sailed from Portsmouth Harbour on HM troopship Serapis on 14th Dec. 1867. Arrived at Bombay and landed 17th Jan. 1868. February-March: On the march. Reached Cawnpore 8th April 1868. In Cawnpore until Dec. 1870, when they transfer to Jullundur, arriving 21st. Dec. 1870. November 1873 on the march to Peshawar, arriving 25th. November1873. January 1876 on the march to Rawalpindi, arriving 21st. January 1876. The regiment was reorganised and G Battery, 8 Brigade became G Battery, 3 Brigade 1st. July 1876.]

The Cawnpore details appear to confirm your post regarding the death of Margaret,9th. April1868 as this ties in with the Battery being there at the right time. So sad to get so far and end up under such circumstances. I haven't chased a birth certificate for Henrietta as yet but a FIBIS transcription of ''Bengal Marriage Indexes 1865-1873 cites the marriage of Arthur and Ellen Young 1872, Bengal. The same can be said of the "Bengal Presidency Index of marriages", so I feel that Young is most likely the correct surname.

Finally, your lead to the Ballincollig website has proved most fruitful, in so far as I now have direct contact with Mike A. and shall be communicating with him very soon!
Your assistance has been invaluable, thank you so much (I'm sure Mike A. will concur!).

Kindest regards, Mike B. 

[Mike A1]

Hi to all my previous RootsChat friends and to a new cousin, "Embryo"! I can't believe that it is actually 6 years since I posted on this site - but a lot has happened in that time (including a heart attack and a multiple by-pass op...!)   

Daisy - still going strong, I see! Thank you so much for all your valuable help.

I'm now in direct touch with "Embryo" and have a lot more information about our mutual great-grandfather, but your post on the marriage of Arthur and Ellen has REALLY got my interest! To explain - I have always understood that my grandfather (Arthur Harding jnr, born in Ballincollig) and my grandmother, Minnie Allsop, were first cousins. For that to have been the case, Arthur snr's father's name must have been "James Harding" (Minnie's grandfather).
But then I got a copy of the certificate of Arthur and Margaret Long's marriage in Cork which blew that idea out of the water because it shows Arthur snr's father's name as also being "Arthur", occupation "Law Clerk".... I have been totally unable to get any further because of this anomaly, but I have often wondered if in fact there was an error in the marriage record, not only in the name, but also in the occupation shown of "Law Clerk" - that has come right out of left field and doesn't seem to match any other occupational information that I can find about the Harding family. Now if in fact Arthur's father's name WAS "James" then my search is back on the rails again!

BTW, my RootsChat name is now "Mike A1" because I have changed my email address since 2006 and had completely forgotten any previous passwords, so I found it impossible to re-register under "Mike A" because that name was already "taken"  It was just easier to register as a new poster.....! (If the administrator can suggest how I can get back to being just "Mike A" that would be good!).

[Berlin-Bob]

Hi Mike,

please post a short comment here, twice, so that you can use the PM facility.
We can then help you to retrieve your older account.

regards,
Bob

[Mike A1]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the reply!
Mike
 

[Mike A1]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the reply!
Mike