I cant find her mother - Lincolnshire

[clairenorman39]

Hi everyone,
I went and ordered Dorothy Hostireds birth certificate and it should have been arriving now but instead I received this email

Dorothy Hostired 1846 and ref no - no trace of this birth at the reference quoted.

How infuriating. I got the page number wrong!!!

Another four week wait now folks.

[clairenorman39]

Here I sit with Dorothy Hostired's birth certificate in my hot little hands.
Well........................
Mother - Frances Elizabeth HOSTHEAD (why spell it differently to the daughters?)
Father ................ Blank space.

So what can I do now? What do you all think please?
Shall I go searching further for Frances?

Could Dorothy Robinson have been born Hostired and then changed to Robinson?
Why would Frances not have named the father?

It is sooooooooo frustrating.

Thanks in advance

Claire

[Geoff E]

As I've said a few times in this thread there was never anyone called HOSTIRED.  This was an interpretation by the FreeBMD transcriber of what he/she saw in front of them.  I looked at the image myself and decided the name was probably HOSTHEAD.

Frances Elizabeth HOSTHEAD was another of William and Ellen's children, baptised 12 July 1823 at Gainsborough.  Her baptism does not appear on the IGI but is on the BIVRI2 disks.  I can't see a marriage for her.

She (FEH) was a servant in 1851 for a THOMPSON family in Gainsborough.

Now I must go on holiday.

Bye

[redspookhunter]

Geoff

[Valda]

The rules on birth certificates in the case of illegitimate children and fathers' details can be found here

http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/births.htm#COL4

Marriages Mar 1861
Hursthead  Frances Elizabeth    Gainsbro'  7a 830
Spindler  William     Gainsbro  7a 830

1861 census RG9 2409 folio 65
Hookman Street Gainsborough  Lincolnshire   
William Shindley 22  Tillingham, Lincolnshire, Head  Married Sailor
Frances Shindley 33  Gainsborough, Lincolnshire, Wife 
Charles Hoyland 11  Gainsborough, Lincolnshire,  Son Waiter at railway (Charles Hosthead Shindley on 1871 census so the parents had been together obviously some time before they married - though Charles doesn't appear to be on the 1851 census)
Edward Hoyland 4  Gainsborough, Lincolnshire, Son   

Births Sep 1849
HOSTED  Charles    Gainsboro  14 344

So I think this takes Dorothy 'Hostired' out of the equation but tracking her family could well be an example of why it is so hard to track your Dorothy.

I would still want to do a search or have one done for me of the Gainsborough baptismal register /s.

Regards

Valda

[JAP]

Claire, You said that Dorothy's birthdate was consistently 1845/1846 on all censuses.  The only one to which I have access is the 1881 (on FamilySearch - Dorothy CRABB) and there her age is given as 33 i.e. birthdate of ca 1848 ...
What was her age on other records (court and refuge records, marriage certificate, 1861 and 1871 censuses ...)

I am assuming(!) that Frederick George's parents were Joseph ROBINSON (probably the Joseph who died and was buried in Gainsborough in Mar 1841) and Mary GUEST who married in Rotherham, Yorkshire in 1805; a Joseph ROBINSON and a Mary had an Ann there b Dec 1805, bap Jan 1806 (fits with 1851 census record of Anne 44 b Rotherham, sister Ellen 21 b Gainsborough, sister-in-law Rebecca, and niece Clara - Clara a witness at Dorothy's wedding).  From the 1841 census, and Joe's appearance in the 1861 census, we take it that Joseph and Mary also had (all in Gainsborough?) at least Thomas ca 1813, Joseph ca 1816, William ca 1818, Frederick George ca 1821, and Ellen ca 1831.   Thomas seems likely to be the Thomas Guest ROBINSON who died in Gainsborough, Mar qtr 1850.

Just some thoughts.
Do the Dorothy birth records from Gainsborough have to be discarded.
Might Dorothy "Hostired" have been a child of Frances Elizabeth and Fred which William SHINDLEY wouldn't take on when he married Frances?  He'd taken on Edward (perhaps his son?) and Charles; if the 1861 ages of William (22) and Charles (11) are correct, presumably William was not the father of Charles.  And we don't have a death record for a Dorothy HOSTHEAD (however spelled) or a Dorothy ROBINSON ...
Might the Dorothy BERRY who died in Gainsborough in 1852 not have been the same as the Dorothy BERRY born there in Sep qtr 1849?  Perhaps she might have been an older Dorothy BERRY after whom the 1849 Dorothy BERRY was named?
Then there's also Dorothy Diana GREEN born 1843 (and a Dorothy GREEN death in 1853) ...

Perhaps burial records might help.

And it would be good to find each Dorothy in the 1851?  And to find Fred ...  And Sarah Ann (BERRY) ROBINSON.  Frances Elizabeth HOSTHEAD has been found as a servant in a THOMPSON family - presumably without either Dorothy or Charles ...

Incidentally Claire, if you can get to an LDS FHC the film of the Gainsborough parish church records seems to be listed in their catalogue so could be ordered in ...

JAP   

 

[Valda]

The National Burial index has coverage of Gainsborough up to the late C19th, beginning in 1813 and 1844 for the two parish churches. No Dorothys already listed.

The use of the surname Hoyland for the two sons on the 1861 census I think is significant. On later censuses they both used the surname Horsthead. William was dead by 1871 and Susannah was a widow.

Dorothy Hosthead was with her maternal grandparents in 1851. Men who don't marry women they have a child with, are rarely welcome at the women's family residence.

Regards

Valda

[JAP]

Hi All,

Perhaps the unlikely still has to be considered given that the problem has not yet been solved?  Although I suppose it is possible that Dorothy ROBINSON (daughter of Frederick George ROBINSON according to her marriage certificate) was never registered …  But, if so, where is she in 1851?

If we hypothesize, just for a moment, that Dorothy HOSTHEAD (illegitimate) and Dorothy ROBINSON (same age, same birthplace) might still be one and the same, it is perhaps worth remembering that Grandma Ellen HOSTHEAD (who was looking after a 5yo granddaughter Dorothy HOSTHEAD in 1851) had been widowed (when?) some time between 1851 and 1861.  She had apparently had to take up employment as a servant in Market Rasen, and she had her own daughter Ellen (same age as Dorothy) with her.  Would an employer have accepted a granddaughter as well?  And remember, if Dorothy HOSTHEAD and Dorothy ROBINSON are one and the same, Dorothy was a “naughty” girl.  Perhaps Grandma HOSTHEAD had no choice but to find somewhere to place Dorothy (either because she couldn't take her to her place of employment, or because she was too "naughty") – if Dorothy's mother Frances Elizabeth wouldn’t/couldn’t take her, and if none of her HOSTHEAD aunts and uncles would/could take her (have they been checked out?), perhaps Grandma HOSTHEAD simply took her to the ROBINSONs, said something like 'here, it's your problem now, you sort it out', and departed for the job at Market Rasen with her own daughter …  Yes, it is nothing more than a hypothetical scenario but doesn’t it have to remain a possibility until either (a) Dorothy ROBINSON is found before 1859, or (b) Dorothy HOSTHEAD is found in 1861 – or a death or marriage is found for her after her birth in 1846 and by 1861.

Sorry if I’ve missed something but, as I read the thread, the salient points are as follows (listing all possible Dorothy births in Gainsborough).  And one of the most important missing pieces of the jigsaw is where Frederick George ROBINSON was in 1851.     

1841
Frederick ROBINSON is living with his mother Mary in Gainsborough

1843 Jun qtr
Dorothy Diana GREEN is born in Gainsborough.

1846 Mar qtr
Dorothy “HOSTIRED” is born in Gainsborough.  Mother is Frances Elizabeth HOSTHEAD (Frances is a daughter, b 1823 in Gainsborough, of William and Ellen HOSTHEAD).
Ellen “HOSTKEAD” is born in Gainsborough.
Geoff E found the birth/baptism (both 29 Jan) of Ellen HOSTHEAD, daughter of William and Ellen in the Gainsborough baptism register.
He did not find a record of a Dorothy HOSTHEAD in the baptism register.

1849 Sep qtr
Dorothy BERRY is born in Gainsborough.
Charles HOSTED is born in Gainsborough (almost certainly another child of Frances Elizabeth)

1849 Sep qtr
A Frederick George ROBINSON marries a Sarah Ann BERRY in Doncaster.
(Is this Fred from Gainsborough?)

1851
Dorothy “HASTHEAD”, 5, is living with her married grandmother Ellen in Gainsborough.  Ellen has children aged 21, 16, 14, and (Ellen) 5 living with her.
Dorothy’s mother, Frances Elizabeth, is a servant elsewhere.

Frederick ROBINSON has not yet been found.
Dorothy GREEN has not yet been found.
Dorothy BERRY has not yet been found.
Charles HOSTHEAD has not yet been found.
Where are they?

1852 Sep qtr
A Dorothy BERRY dies in Gainsborough.  (Is this the Dorothy BERRY born 1849?)

1853 Mar qtr
A Dorothy GREEN dies in Gainsborough.  (Is this the Dorothy GREEN born 1843?)

1859
Dorothy ROBINSON is admitted to the West Riding House of Refuge in Wakefield – she was living with her Aunt Ellen (ROBINSON) BROOMHEAD (marriage not found) in Masbrough at the time of admission.  This is the first time Dorothy ROBINSON has been sighted.

1861
Dorothy HASTHEAD’s grandmother Ellen (as HURSTHEAD) is widowed and is a servant in Market Rasen.  She has her daughter Ellen with her.
There is no sign of a Dorothy HASTHEAD (where is she?).

Dorothy ROBINSON is in the House of Refuge in Wakefield, aged 15, born Gainsborough.

Frederick ROBINSON, widowed, is living with his sister (is this Anne?) in Peterborough.

Frances Elizabeth HOSTHEAD (now married) has her son Charles (as HOYLAND) with her; also another son Edward.

Cheers,

JAP

[Valda]

As an illegitimate child called Hosthead and brought up in the Hosthead family, if none of that family were prepared to look after the child she would go straight into the workhouse. She wouldn't be suddenly dumped on the Robinson family (as their responsibility - which she legally wasn't) and acquire a Robinson surname - which legally she had no right to (though you can and could be known by any surname you chose), and then subsequently be placed by that family into the workhouse system. It is extremely rare that an illegitimate child's paternal family take up the responsibility for the child, unless a marriage at some point occurred between the parents.

Births don't get registered and people do get missed off or wrongly enumerated on censuses. It is perfectly possible that Dorothy Robinson has falled through both those cracks - no birth registration and the whole 'family' including her father missed off the 1851 census.

Surmising anything about the surname Robinson is very tricky because it is such a common surname. The 12th most common surname in the country, so you easily get coincidences like this even in Gainsborough and even with an extremely rare surname like Hosthead which I'm not  sure even exists anymore.

ROBINSON, Thomas         
Susannah HOSTHEAD      
Marriage Date:31 Oct 1849 All Saints Gainsborough, Lincolnshire
Husband's Father:   Thomas ROBINSON
Wife's Father:   William HOSTHEAD

These Robinsons moved to Durham and from the later censuses it is apparent this Thomas was born in Derbyshire.

FreeBMD is of course incomplete for the period we are interested in so any of these Dorothys mentioned could have further entries in the civil registration - not just for the Gainsborough registration district - which doesn't just cover Gainsborough.

Gainsborough Registration District
Parishes in Lincolnshire (1837-1930):
Blyborough, Blyton cum Wharton, Brampton, Coates, Corringham, East Ferry, East Stockwith, Fenton, Fillingham, Gainsborough, Gate Burton, Glentworth, Grayingham, Greenhill and Redhill, Hardwick, Harpswell, Haxey, Heapham, Hemswell, Kettlethorpe, Kexby, Knaith, Laughton, Lea, Marton, Morton, Newton on Trent, Northorpe, Owston, Owston Ferry, Pilham Scotter, Scotton, Southorpe, Springhtorpe, Stow, Sturton by Stow, Thonock, Torksey, Upton, Walkerith, West Butterwick, Wildsworth, Willingham, Willoughton.

Parishes in Nottinghamshire (1837-1930):
Beckingham, Bole, Misterton, Saundby, Walkeringham, West Burton, West Stockwith.

All I know from the civil registration is these other possible Dorothy's had their births registered in Gainsborough registration district. I don't know that they were actually born in Gainsborough. e.g. 1851 census

Misterton  Nottinghamshire 
Dorothy Berry 1 Misterton, Nottinghamshire,  Daughter of Thomas

and the Dorothy Green death registered in Gainsborough registration district in 1853 is possibly this woman.

West Stockwith  Nottinghamshire 
Dorothy Green 70  Harworth, Nottinghamshire,  Head  Widow

Gainsborough parish registers for baptisms have coverage on the IGI only until 1835, so whether Dorothy 'Robinson's' baptism did or didn't occur in the Gainsborough parish register is still unknown.

Regards

Valda